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Australia what the hell?

111 posts · Started by Aphex · 12 Mar 2014

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Post 1 by Aphex,

#1
What are you cunts doing over there? I just read about Victoria's new laws concerning protesting: Protesters can now be charged $750 or 2 years jail. [Source ]

Same with Queensland and their "Anti-Associating laws". Can some one over there explain why this is going on?

Post 2 by Crotchrockety,

#2
Humm,

Twenty odd years ago the Austrailian citizens were disarmed for their protection. Crime rates increased.

Now their right to peaceably protest to redress grievances is being whittled away. The government can now summarily lock them up if they disagree with the government's mandates.

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” – Thomas Jefferson

Now, we're being fed a load of crap that disarming the populous will somehow protect us. The majority of Assuies bought into that load of crap.

“Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.” Edmund Burke

Post 3 by Colonel_Klinck,

#3
I'm not going to get into a gun control argument as we will never agree. But I am guessing gun related crime/deaths from those guns banned have plummeted in Australia since they banned them.

Right to protest however should never be curtailed. One of our most basic human rights.

Post 4 by 81forest,

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Post 5 by Aphex,

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Post 6 by shadowman,

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Post 7 by Crotchrockety,

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Post 8 by 81forest,

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Post 9 by SDNerd,

#9
Firearms ownership aside, I do not believe that the "right" to protest (a form of expression), is an inalienable or "basic human right". It should be IMO, but isn't.

While somewhat ancient in concept (a couple thousand years - maybe), freedom of expression is a modern philosophical idea in practice. In this country, the application of "Freedom of Speech" was born from tyranny, and why the First Amendment to our Constitution (and in support of that, the 2nd Amendment as well) - as part of the "Bill of Rights".

The UK, which purports to have as its constitution (which there is no single formal document for) a series of documents (body of law) that prescribe it, it is still all subject to Parliament, not the people directly per se, as in the US. In other words, similar law could be enacted in UK - which no doubt would be amidst protest. The UK's adoption of the European Convention (as an EU member), does however bind them to a very specific freedom of expression/speech description (with many exceptions) as a "Human Right". Note that this was adopted only in the late 1990s (not in the late 18th century as it was in the US).

History aside, I don't know that Australia's Constitution has a formal, general, explicit statement regarding freedom of speech. I am not too familiar with it, but don't believe they do. The exception - IIRC - is what they refer to as "political speech".

I am not defending the Australian's treatment of protestors philosophically, but the law (of a given society), often irrational creature that she is, is their law, therefore not really of my concern. I have no plans to go there and protest anything.

In fairness, there are constraints to the interpretation of our own "Freedom of Speech", which do not allow for violent protest (incitement of riot or other anarchy), screaming "fire" (false emergency) in a somewhat confined space with a sizable number of people present, attending university courses without clothing (silly example), and what have you.

Regarding the firearm buyback in Oz, I am not familiar with the crime statistics prior to, during, or shortly following this process - so I am in no position to comment. As for "success", what's the metric? What I do know, that for Australia at the time, it was very expensive (which is a societal cost).

Regardless gents, these are the laws of countries in which we don't all reside. What they choose to do, is up to that society (in this case - a state) or nation-state. Being judgmental about their choices (on a moto forum - lol), is unlikely to result in change.

Post 10 by Aphex,

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Post 11 by bazz21,

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Post 12 by ktmguy,

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Post 13 by BassAgent,

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Post 14 by AGRO!,

#14
The same thing is happening in the US anyhow its all about controlling the people.
The US president signed a agreament I think it was last year or maybe the year before but it states they have the right to lock any protestors or even religious people up indefenatly if they want and as they deem fit so you could be just walking down the road and seen as some sort of threat and get locked up its BS!
Have you guys heard of agenda 21 find it and have a read.

Post 15 by SDNerd,

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Post 16 by 81forest,

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Post 17 by ktmguy,

#17
Solution to all problems!

GUY FOR PRESIDENT!

Honestly, I'm the perfect candidate! I'm dumb, good looking, opinionated, middle aged, got acting skills and I think everyone is a c#&nt!

Poll is running!

BTW I got Bassies vote and AGRO's too!

Post 18 by Davo-Singapore,

#18
For our American friends. The gun buy back scheme was a very brave step taken by the Howard government to take as many guns off the streets as possible. The scheme cost the country millions but IMHO was worth every penny. This was achieved on the back of public sentiment immediately following the terrible Port Arthur massacre. Since then there has not been a repeat (heaven forbid). If Obama and the US government had grown a pair and did what the Howard Govt did (in the face of a lot of flack I might add) then a few less kids would have been murdered by gun toting idiots on the streets and in the schools there.

Post 19 by AGRO!,

#19
Guy for President! Yes! Can i be your second in charge?
Have you noticed in the US that ammo is getting more expensive and harder to get?
If the people wont hand their guns in whats the next best thing to do?

Post 20 by bazz21,

#20
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Post 21 by ktmguy,

#21
All I can say is that the perspective of the observer changes with his point of view!

Also we never had so many issues and arguments on this forum since the release of the SD1290 R.

I recon KTM is evil and that Pierer bloke is the new antichrist!

People get along please. We can argue about this till the cows come home and no solution will be found since there is none.
Violence is part of the human nature and no amount of silly rules and PC correctness will cure this.
I actually lived in many countries and I can tell you not one of them is perfect. This mostly due to bad leadership no matter how you look at it.

So go out for a ride, clear the head and answer my bloody question in the technical tread on the 1290 suspension!

Post 22 by Davo-Singapore,

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Post 24 by BassAgent,

#24
Nerd I swear whoever is telling you that you are smart needs to stop, like now. If you even made an attempt to overlook your whiny hatred of me, you would know exactly what I was talking about and not make a dumbass post like you just did lmao.

First of all, who fooking cares if noone else is using sources or not? Did you see me quoting their comments? I didn't think so smartypants. Common sense tells you that I was replying to the person I was replying to directly, directly. Haha you twat.

Second of all, in speedfiends original post, he mentioned "We haven't had the type of mass shooting that seems to be commonplace in the US for decades. DECADES. I wouldn't live in your country if my life depended on it - cos I'd be scared shitless I'd lose it to some gun crazy nut on a bender."

I'm trying to make it easy for your barney-style mind to comprehend here bahahaha.

He then goes on to say, "Don't believe everything you read" "the media's reporting of it is in total disproportion to what actually happened." and "They whip up a horde of citizens screaming for action"

Are you following yet? Lolol

As you can see, our friend speed here undoubtedly thinks gun crimes and mass shootings and crazy people are happening all the time over here in the U.S. Obviously something he read or saw on the news. Then he goes to say you can't believe the stuff being said on the news about his country because it's "in total disproportion". See it now big boy?

Class over. Dumbass. Lmao.

Post 25 by BassAgent,

#25
I see a lot of things said, yet I see no factual sources being used. No statistics, no numbers, nothing. No population relations... no mention of rises in other violent crimes, etc. I've done extensive research on this subject. You can say what you want all day lol.

Post 26 by AGRO!,

#26
One thing we have to remember also is that the US population is around 200 million compared to Australia's 20 million so there is going to be a big difference in crime between the two countries.
Just saying

Post 27 by ktmguy,

#27
At the end of the day if there is a zombie apocalypse both the US and Australia are fooked!

Australia because we don't have guns, the US coz the zombies have guns too!

Can we leave this crap tread before someone says something stupid it gets locked down.
This is not what a forum on bike riding should be about. We all know this topic is controversial and as mentioned before the perspective changes from the point of view of the observer.

BTW nobody replied to me I'm smart even though I stated otherwise, hate you all!
When I become president you all pay for this!

Post 28 by Colonel_Klinck,

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Post 29 by ktmguy,

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Post 30 by Colonel_Klinck,

#30
I already am a real Colonel don't make me get my doomsday weapon for a public viewing

Post 31 by shadowman,

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Post 32 by ktmguy,

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Post 33 by bazz21,

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Post 34 by Aphex,

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Post 35 by BassAgent,

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Post 36 by Aphex,

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Post 37 by BassAgent,

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Post 38 by BassAgent,

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Post 39 by BassAgent,

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Post 40 by Davo-Singapore,

#40
You found that in 3 minutes. Must not have read it if that's what you are using as your argument haha. I can take One set of data found on 1 site and make it whatever I want it to be also. Too bad things are more complex than that.There are sooooooooooooo many different factors that an article like this is NOT including just to push their agenda on uninformed, easily-influenced people. You'd have to have no ability of critical thinking to take that at face value.

Post 41 by SDNerd,

#41
you said that there were no statistics that linked number of guns to number of gun deaths on a per capita basis
yes the study even said that it may be skewed or flawed, but come on, 10:1 even you would have to admit that this isn't a statistical anomaly

here is another


going by this, we American seem to off ourselves a heck of a lot more than all but two countries, on a per capita basis with firearms, but still 10:1

show me something that shows the opposite and then we can discuss.


added some information from the CDC that seems to collaborate the numbers cited previously :

Post 42 by ktmguy,

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Post 43 by BassAgent,

#43
[/quote]

I got a spot for you in my dungeon!

So far I got:
Colonel Klinck - Military affairs.
Agro: Foreign affairs
Bassie: Internal security
Morin: External security
Nerd: Education , Sorry delete that since he doesn't read my posts back, this post is still open.
Bic and Davo Singapore: Entertainment, Music, alcohol and so on.
TL Russ, Oompalumpa foreign trade.
Stalker, Intelligence. (gona regret that... )
Dan: Police.
Dribble: Justice (hey he "donated" well )

Shadowman, In the dungeon!

The rest is still open lads, applications together with a donation to paypal...you know the drill.... [/quote]

I'm up for it. You picked Bic and I right. We'll be dropping some tunes on vinyl. There will be lots of "so on" too.

Post 44 by ktmguy,

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Post 45 by AGRO!,

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Post 46 by ktmguy,

#46
ktmguy's got my vote for president. That's a solid platform you got started there lol

Post 47 by DribbleDuke,

#47
Update while the glue is drying... (too much time to think)

Health and safety: Maddog.
Secret service (the ones who visit you if you disagree ) Rocketchic and Jmann.
Duke for Dirk (haven't hear from him long time) Rivers, parks, fisheries and game (as in wildlife stupid, not call of duty!).
The Gin Reaper: afterlife and occult science.

No need to mention Bert as he is oracle/matrix/the force and he looks after all of us. Don't doubt him or you will be struck down with a flash of lightning!

EDIT:
Motoronin has kindly requested to be removed from external affairs and do the arts instead. WTF? So that is vacant again.
He might do aviation as a side gig but he wants to replace all planes to helicopters. Not sure if that is fine as I like these old spitfires, DC3's and F104's
Jim H does thermoplastic research and the removal of obsolete jobs. You know,stuff we don't need or care about like marketing, lawyers, advertising, dispute tribunals and so on. We have the internet now and Bert so we don't need all that crap.
WillH- fabrication


Shit tiring stuff this political mumbo jumbo, when do this people actually do some real work?

Post 48 by Linga,

#48
viewtopic.php?t=19778
Bass, search, read, educate.

You are the worst kind of idiot. You choose stupidity.
Search and learn.
Gun/deaths/population. Easy mathematics on a calculator.

You don't need to change your opinion, but you do need to change your attitude.

Post 49 by shadowman,

#49
Hi Linga,

Did you get your stolen race bike back???

Certainly hope so

Post 50 by Linga,

#50
Nah, not yet mate. Hoping still.
Pro twin Australia has been nice enough to build me a bike for the season to race. They are amazing!!

Post 51 by BassAgent,

#51
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Post 52 by Linga,

#52
Still no facts.... Are you Sattler or Waldoff?
This forum... The net...

Post 53 by Linga,

#53
My point is only that you choose idiocy.
I can agree to disagree, as frustrating as it is, with someone who can justify their position. That is shown in the thread you chose not to read.
You, however, have the world's knowledge at your fingertips and choose ignorance.
This forum is great for weeding out and vetting morons. Hence why it is so good and we are so diverse.
You sir are a moron and need to be vetted.

Post 54 by BassAgent,

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Post 55 by BassAgent,

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Post 56 by BassAgent,

#56
Also, I am not assuming that you have done absolutely no worthwhile research on this matter, I am stating as fact that you haven't.

Pretty bold right? You are probably firing up at the fingertips getting ready to tell me how I can't possibly do that and assuming makes me an ass or something or whatever haha.

Yet, I can make such a claim because it's supported directly by your own position. It's as simple as the mere fact you believe that all there is to the topic is "gun deaths per capita of gun ownership".

I feel sorry for people who live day to day with such limited critical thinking skills.

Btw, calling somebody "stupid" over and over... you've obviously never done any research on "name calling in a debate" Lol. (inb4 "hey you called sdnerd a dumbass" I still stand by this, Hahaha)

Maybe you don't do any research for anything? It's possible...

Post 57 by Linga,

#57
Name calling is not a debate.

Since you are too lazy to read the previously mentioned thread which has quite a lot of research, what would you like me to research for you?

You also stated "points of research" Clarify.

I'm yet to be assured of your non moronic status... Ironic lol

Post 58 by BassAgent,

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Post 59 by Superdan,

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Post 60 by BassAgent,

#60
It's a good time-passer lol

Post 61 by SDNerd,

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Post 62 by BassAgent,

#62
Funny thing here - this thread began with a query (if you can call it that ...) on an issue that had nothing to do with firearms. It also had nothing to do with the US either.

Some shit-stirrer decided to add some seasoning to the pot (you know who you are ), attempting to correlate the matter to the criminalization of most private firearm ownership in Australia. This was a false and unsupported premise. A hypothesis at best.

All fine I suppose, but the thread was about "protestors" potentially being fined for protesting in the state of Victoria, Australia.

Refreshing my understanding of matters Australian regarding freedom of speech or expression: There is NO freedom of speech or expression explicitly stated in their constitution, but for one somewhat narrow exception.

It is how it is. For anyone who is not Australian, in case you think otherwise: It's not your country. While everyone is entitled to their opinion - the only opinions and viewpoints of significance, are of those with Australian citizenship.


-------------------------------------------
Unrelated to the thread topic, but since you all seem to insist: I would fully expect that after enough time following a disarming the populace of firearms, that there would be a reduction in (per capita):

- Firearm related injuries and deaths.

- Crimes committed with, or involving firearms.

What I would NOT KNOW (a profession of ignorance) what to expect (again assuming many years had passed after law had been enacted): In specific categories of violent crimes (murders, forced-entry/theft, rape, kidnapping, etc.) - would their per capita frequency go down?

Similarly, I would expect that should say, motorcycles be banned/outlawed, that there would be a substantial reduction (per capita or miles traveled - you pick) in the number:

- Motorcycle related injuries and deaths.

- Crimes committed with, or involving motorcycles.

OK - before I head further down the slippery slope, I'll leave this alone now.

Post 63 by BassAgent,

#63
Nerd gets it, almost. On the right track with thinking more critically at least. Though I can't exactly say that you aren't completely getting it since your point may be elsewhere than where I was going on topic.

Post 64 by Linga,

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Post 65 by lc4,

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Post 66 by ktmguy,

#66
In answer to the original question and in line with what Linga has posted Australians only have themselves to blame for voting in conservative Liberal governments and that is why our rights are being eroded away.
Although the gun laws were introduced by a conservative Liberal government I personally did not have a issue with it. Although 99% of Australians have no practical use for guns anyone can own a firearm there are just restrictions on what type of gun and what your intentions are on its use.
I would not like to live in a environment where I found the need to own a gun to protect my family of myself.

(Yes I know Feathers is holding a gun )

Post 67 by AGRO!,

#67
I want my justice minister to step in and clear this up, hardcore no pussyfooting!

Post 68 by DribbleDuke,

#68
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Post 69 by Aphex,

#69
Can someone post a link for BassAgent to the moderator controls and hopefully he accidentally bans himself?

Post 70 by BassAgent,

#70
what Linga said.
Ignorance is bliss, it is no wonder Bass's posts are loaded with " LOL's"
If I were at a keyboard, I'd chime in and hit the fish with both barrels.
Australian people have grit enough that apathy will not take too deep ahold.
Guns and or that lack thereof seems to be a prevailing current around these parts.
I have heard the argument that if they were outlawed then only outlaws would have them.
This may be good since most guns only shoot the owner or close kin folk.
Trust me, I'll spew justice upon my return. But for now, Bass shutthefuckup!

Post 71 by lc4,

#71
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Post 72 by Linga,

#72
Still no facts idiot?
Not one?
Do you learn at school?
I'd love to see your assignments!
I reckon this!!! Because... Well you disapprove it!!! I said it...
You must be top of the class...

Post 73 by BassAgent,

#73
You must not have went to school at all. In this case I can be related to being the teacher who is giving you the prompt to a research paper with key topics to discuss. I am not the one who needs to post facts or argue my case for I am already of sound knowledge on the topic at hand. It is up to the uninformed (you) to research the ideas given and fix your incorrect thinking. Good day sir! Lmao

Post 74 by Linga,

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Post 75 by Linga,

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Post 76 by BassAgent,

#76
That video makes me cringe a little.
Funny as, when he calls the young fella out... Does sorta prove he's not always on the right side of the law though...

Post 77 by Linga,

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Post 78 by Linga,

#78
Still no info...? Idiot

Post 79 by ktmguy,

#79
If you realise you are an idiot and live in idiocy, it will be your first step out of idiom.

Post 80 by MrZ32,

#80
Bassagent you disappoint me! I thought you learned your lesson and got more mature, but no.
Do you for get you are a mod? There are 3 types of people on forums. On a subject some have opinion red, some have opinion blue, the mods supposed to keep an eye on the discussions an call for reason if needed. You did no such thing, only putting fuel on the fire. I'm not saying you are right or wrong, just that it is not your job as a mod to tell other people what your opinion is in this aggressive way.
You stepped up to the plate when required, with this job comes responsibilities, act like a mod!

You should know better that on the subject of guns and gun ownership opinions are divided and tempers can flare, your job is to bring reason to this. If you can't quit!
Take an example from Klinck, he can bring his view to the table without upsetting people (I'm not talking about a laugh) and still keep things under control.
This is a bike forum not a political vent or gun control lobby.

Poor performance bud!

Post 81 by BassAgent,

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Post 82 by Linga,

#82
It was never my intention to get into a debate, I was just mentioning avenues of ideas that people should research before coming to narrow-sighted conclusions on the subject. Oh well though.

Btw ktmguy, just because I'm a mod doesn't mean I can't talk back and forth with other members how I would normally. I just can't let my mod power be abused in such situations; which I haven't done. Otherwise I can post shit back and forth like an ass all I want lol. Doesn't mean I'm mad or unruly. You gotta speak to certain people in their own context of speaking after all!

Honestly if people don't like me I really don't care. Unless we're meeting up in person; that's a different story. And people who know me in person know what's up with me anyways.

Post 83 by Aphex,

#83
I would like to hear your views on the anti protest laws in Victoria Bass.

I would also like your point of view on the anti-bikie legislation in Queensland.

Feel free to pop a link or a fact in at any time.

Also... Aphex...? I love the use of cunt lol

Post 84 by BassAgent,

#84
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Post 85 by Linga,

#85
Porn is like a 1-stop shop now. Just use xhamster.com or fantasti.cc lol

Post 86 by DribbleDuke,

#86
It is despicable what they will go to.
The new government is going to sign to the TPP and that is basically secret corporate laws and internet security, with a good dose of Hollywood copy-writes thrown in.
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/transpaci ... 32sf6.html

Whistleblowers, by their very nature, should be protected so as to hold the larger group to account. Using Snowden as a reason is preposterous.

Post 87 by Linga,

#87
This is what a new world order is.
Julian and Edward will be heroes before this is over. But they will have to be heroes in another country.

Post 88 by TLS_Russ,

#88
Image

Post 89 by ktmguy,

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Post 90 by AGRO!,

#90
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Post 91 by Linga,

#91
This has to be BS or have the police gone mad?
The best bit is that you can let the cops know where and when your going for a ride great idea

Post 92 by TLS_Russ,

#92
It does say at the bottom that it may be satirical... May...

Post 93 by AGRO!,

#93
Watching the video posted by lc4 shows this to be factual and being practiced by the police..........
How that guy kept his cool I really dont know.... persecution and intimidation to provoke a response as an excuse to arrest was clearly the police objective there.....

Post 94 by Aphex,

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Post 95 by SDNerd,

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Post 96 by Colonel_Klinck,

#96
The likes of Bradley Manning and Edward Snowdon are heros in my eyes. They sacrificed everything to show what our governments were up to. Whistle blowers of this kind should be heroes to the public not seen as traitors. I hope one day the people who vilify them see how wrong they were about them.

Post 97 by shadowman,

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Post 98 by Colonel_Klinck,

#98
I actually wrote a fairly long reply to that dude but then got the message "session timed out" when i hit Submit Can't be arsed to type it out again. Lets just say we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Post 99 by SDNerd,

#99
That would be Ms. "Chelsea Elizabeth Manning" to you and me.

Post 100 by Linga,

#100
Regardless of how the info was treated afterwards (I can't find a reputable source saying that anyone died as a direct result) the anti protest laws key into this directly. Governments and corporations must be completely transparent to stop unethical behaviour... They are all run by humans... And we are all a bit shit

Post 101 by shadowman,

#101
My guess is that the unintended consequences of total transparency would leave you and any right thinking people breathlessly disappointed! Quiet people taking risks in the shadows and at the margins are every bit as vital to the maintenance of free speech and liberal democracy as any number of celebrity protestors and whistleblowers.

Post 102 by DribbleDuke,

#102
Nice sales pitch. Especially if you make a living by its endorcement.
By the people, for the people, requires discloser, full discloser.
These fuckwits got caught with their hands in the cookie jar. And want to sell us idiots, that includes you Bass, on more " nTional Security". We've had enough of this paradigm. It's time foe evolvement by involvement.

Post 103 by scamb66,

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Post 104 by BassAgent,

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Post 105 by Linga,

#105
Strange group the Ol' 1%ers... I understand the love of a bike, but the love of that culture is odd to me.
One of my mates said he was not allowed to ride my bike because he'd get bashed if they found out, and he was a senior member!
Yet they raced a Jap bike at the Sand drags...? Like I said.... Odd

Post 106 by Aphex,

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Post 107 by scamb66,

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Post 108 by Ruprecht,

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Post 109 by Ruprecht,

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Post 110 by ktmguy,

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Post 111 by Linga,

#111
Just earlier this week, both sides of parliament chose to vote down a bill that would make lobbying and and their backers transparent... They are allowed to hide and we are not...
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