165hp super duke this year (now with added poll)

ok so its from the mcn website but they say its been "spotted" on a trailer and its out later this year, so 165hp super duke on the way

what will come first a win for ducati in GP or the super duke

Couldn't find it... any links?

I never bothered to have my bike dynoed.

I just put it on my trailor and let MCN look at it.

mmm,,mmm MCN spotted it and it had 165bhp painted on the side

165bhp Jesus wept that would be insane!

Should be an exciting few months coming up as details start to come out that's for sure.

If that pixelated photo is the new SD on the trailer, whats going on with the seat / backend, its very low,,its got a similar profile to a Daviel

I like MCN but fook me they need a digital subscription service.... £130.00 for a year's subscription overseas? F- off.

what the hell?? will someone pleeeeeeease just go out, buy the magazine and post the image? we dont seem to be able to get it here!

Don't fret foreign cousins.
I will buy a copy tomorrow, scan the relevant pages and post them up.

Tomorrow? TOMORROW?!?!?

Thats 24 fookin hours we want it NOW!!!!!!!!!

Mass exodus of UK KTM owners to newsagents follows....

We're not all self employed Mike, just some of us know when and how to skive better!

I really look forward to seeing spy photos of the brand new, never been seen, only been whispered about 2013 KTM Super Diavel, er, I mean Duke. With that nearly 1300cc of motorized art, it may be a prime candidate to become the first KTM trike

It was a misprint in the early editions. It should read 116.5bhp Superduke this year.

It's amazing how some manufactures respond when you start threatening to go buy a competitors product....about time KTM got off their ass and started leaking some info.

Where do you guys see 165hp?

LMAO

Well that looks like a diavel... SD the current SD may be the one to have or the new husqvarna

I've just had quick look in MCN, pretty clear picture of the SD, headlight cowl and mask the same as now, single sided swing arm! Exhuast routes on the right side of bike, frame and tank same as the new adventure, tail section to me looks a little like the V4 tuono, looks more like an evolution of the current style than a total revamp.

It just proves that the 2005 bike was many years ahead of the competition, 7 years and only a minir facelift in 2007 LOL

To be honest, I don't know if I want to see a new SD, from what I've seen from the new 2012 duke...maybe it better to just change the engine and head light with better wind protection for all the power and speed freaks out there

Sorry didn't buy it, just had a look in the shop!

This one?

And this one?

That would be right... The French give them a great design and ktm f@ck it up... I guess aprilia isn't the only design team that should be fired

Those are the normal Dukes, standing next to the new Adventure. I think.

That's the new 690 Duke travel ( front head light, rear panels are unique so far ) and the look I was afraid the new SD would have.

Don't know how to say it, but the frame/tank/suspensions position look more like a honda cb500/yamaha xj600N than a full on street fighter.

Damnit somebody scan the picture!!! What time is in the UK now? 2? GET GOING!

I'll paypal 50cents to help funding the purchase of MCN lol

Not bad at all...

Three cheers for Schnauzer. What do numbers represent and can anyone figure out how the front cylinder is attached to the frame?

Interestingly, there is no annular ring on the front disc for ABS / TC.

Very interesting, I'm keen to see what they've done to the suspension, I see the top triple is thin but the forks are up through 20mm or so...

very exciting!!

Schnauzer, thanks for stepping up to the plate!!!!

i love the thing, still has the SD character! id say it looks like its got a lower seat height, they got rid of the external oil sump too.
battery has been relocated, probably under the seat im thinking. love the swingarm.

About fecking time we a proper picture to look at.

I like, but no doubt will be out of my price range

I kinda like the "Batman" battery box
On the current ones...

with the external oil sump gone it should be a snap to remove the SAS too!

It's quite good apart from the swingarm but I would imagine the production models will have it in black.

Exciting indeed!

Although I must say I was expecting something more of a radical redesign. As that bike sits, I'd have a hard time trading my R for it.

Thanks for putting this up.

Looks good. The target market is obvious: Streetfighter.

While all speculative at this point - I have to wonder if it will be heavy, and whether the liveliness of the current model will be retained ... ABS - don't care. 165 HP - yeah, right, whatever. TC holds some appeal - but I guess we'll see what turns up, when it turns up.

I never buy bikes in their first model year - so I look forward to reading about how fantastic it is from you all. As well as its foibles, of course - which you will have no doubt resolved by the time I buy mine.

I dunno, judging by the seat height and handlebar position this really no longer fits in with the Streetfighters, Tuonos, Brutales, etc. THEN AGAIN, maybe its just an awkward angle.

Looks like the battery is back under the seat. Is that a single sided swing arm?

Overall I like the styling. Plenty of angles around tank and it def looks SD to me. Little bit relieved as I was a bit worried KTM were going to fook this up. Tail tidy first thing on the shopping list though.

Thanks for posting up the pic!

Gotta say I was hoping for more of an RC8Resque suspension/swingarm layout. SS swingarms are heavier than standard arms to obtain the same rigidity. Also, looks like there will be no rising rate linkage for the shock....bummer. What did the #4 caption say about the shock (cut-off in the photo)??

As someone mentioned, the seat/tank/bar relationship looks a little out of whack. Foot controls and such look a little cheapish as well.

This is obviously a pre-pre production unit and several things will change but at least we have an idea of what to expect now.

The only things that impress me so far are potentially the motor (would be easy to get 165hp at the crank - 150ish at the wheel) and the calipers. Seat height does look really low.

[quote="SDNerd"]Thanks for putting this up.

Looks good. The target market is obvious: Streetfighter.

While all speculative at this point - I have to wonder if it will be heavy, and whether the liveliness of the current model will be retained ... ABS - don't care. 165 HP - yeah, right, whatever. TC holds some appeal - but I guess we'll see what turns up, when it turns up.


oh i dont think its gonna be heavy at all. just look at it, its just like what we have now minimalist. ok the swingarm will weigh a bit more maybe.
it also looks like there are a few points to mount a chin fairing. if you draw a parallel line between the #1 and the #5 there appears to be a boss similar to the attachment points on our SD?
overall it looks remarkably finished though. they must have been working on it for a long time as you would expect.
i do not like the honking silencer though, judging for the one they have proposed on the Adventure is gonna be hideous! i was hoping for a under the frame one like on the RC8.

I am looking at on a phone so details are sketchy.
It looks like the category is between cruiser and fighter.
A tank bag on top will require the use of a periscope.
A steroid taking couch potato SD. I like mine. Never been a huge fan of single sided
Swingarms. Will not sell near as well, they did not listen to our input.

I'm a bit relieved too about the styling because KTM do seem to have taken a "take out the real hard edge and approach" a bit lately. It's because they now have big backers and have to appeal to a more global market. Look what they've done to the Duke - it will appeal to a more broad range of people but I want my KTMs hard every time.

Anyway, today reading a rave review in Bike magazine about the RC8 and it's amazing flexibility for altering the ergonomics to suit any rider - the seat height, bars, footrests etc. No other bike manufacturer has ever done this before. I was really hoping to see the same philosophy applied to the new SD but there doesn't look like there are the same adjustments on this prototype. Shame really if they don't offer it.

But generally it looks really good. Should be more carbon though!

165 BHP though. Don't know if I really know what to do with that in my everyday life. Also I wouldn't want to get rid of my '07 SD - it's taken me 5 years to get it to be the bike it is now!!!

Thanks for posting the pic!
I like It! Really hope they won't change too much on the production model. Stuff like the silencer and numerplate bracket are easy to alter. Only thing missing is the chin spoiler.

Thanks for scanning and posting the picture.

After looking at this for a while, I think the finished 2013 SuperDuke will be quite a bit different. It looks to me that this is just a test mule . That tank looks so out of place. What's with that low seat and the lack of ground clearance.

Thats probably why i love riding the superduke so much as its the most compact bike i have ever owned.
I don't believe that we will get a new SuperDuke that looks that dis-proportionate. I've never really been a single sided swing arm fan. Like many of you have said, it just adds weight.

This has to be a hooligan bike! That's what we all want. I think if we wanted something tame and watered down we'd be riding something like a Vstrom. Tail tidy can me made, exhausts can be changed, but a good base and ease of use is what KTM must provide to begin with.

That photo just reinforces my desire to keep my current SuperDuke as long as I live. I really don't care what the latest and greatest gizmos are currently in vogue! I just want something that's the most fun you can have on two wheels!

I'm guessing the SSSW is to balance out the weight of the can?? Not a fan of them myself either. Needs a bit of work still but hopefully they listen to public feed back from shots like this

Looks like a proper mix-mash off different things.

Good thing I wasn't holding out for it, as I am very had with my current '06 model.

well its a test ride for that thing... the seat is nice... but i think it looks like a generic arse end now especialy with the single side exhaust

I say pre-pro simply due to the fact that there are pretty big gaps at the tank seat junction and it just looks unfinished. Personally i don't like looking at the plastic battery box located in the open sub-frame. Probably be corrected for the final product.

The more I look at the photos I think a previous poster had it right...you're gonna need a periscope to see over that tank with a bag on it. This is really fooked up and leg room will be severely compromised (one of the reasons I love my current SD). Almost looks as if you could put another seat on it and it would be just about right...hmm.

Don't know as it's too early to tell but so far I'm not impressed with this effort.

It also appears like they may have gone to a metal tank...it's glossy. Could just be paint but I'm sure they've learnt a painful lesson with these plastic jobbies we've got now.

I don't understand KTM's thinking here. They've got the perfect platform for the perfect naked. Oh well, there's always options.

I suppose I could just buy an RC8R and make my own PROPER SD. I've seen a couple of bikes over the last few months that have really peaked my interest. An R1 converted to a naked, looked factory! And a naked S1000RR!!

After looking at the photos I think KTM is pretty much giving us exactly what we asked for, that is an evolution of the current SD with a SIGNIFICANT bump in displacement and power. In a certain sense I think the 1300cc SD defines a somewhat new niche in motorcycling.......the "Muscle-Fighter". If they kept the weight in the 450lbs fully fueled range this could be a very fun bike no doubt about it. I agree with those who have pointed out that the seat tank juncture looks a little odd, kind of like the low seat version of the BMW R1200R. Or maybe a Multistrada/Super Duke hybrid or something? Also, I don't find this version of the trellis frame to be as visually appealing as that of the current model but I'm sure it's probably a necessary evil to cope with the larger, more powerful engine. I'd sure like to see it with a chin piece too. For me that was so much a part of the current SD styling that they really need to include it on the new version.

One thing I'm concerned about though, can anyone tell what the tank is made of? So help me if it's still that wothless, ethanol deforming Acerbis PA6 nylon piece of trash I'll personally fly to Austria to make sure they fit the production version with something acceptable!

I am thinking this might be closer to done than not.
I got on a bike at a show once and when I leaned over to a semi tuck play like I was getting out of the wind, I nearly hand the wind knocked out of me from the sternum crunch upon the misshaped tank. The SD comes close to sternum crunch and this new one looks like it would be perfect if you do not plan on breathing in while tucked.
We cannot see how collapsed the suspension is, so ride height is tuff to connect with a good feel.
Another poster stated that throwing more money at it to get it sorted is all the rage these days and he/she was sure that would fix exhaust and tail trouble. It seems to be the norm these dayz. I will state that there was nothing wrong with the tail of the SD or the exhaust as far as looks go. I am very tainted here as far as a fair analysis, I doubt that KTM could have built anything that would have shook me into needing a replacement.
There was a recent post of what a Touno could have come out looking like that moved me and even Honda's new naked hits the mark better than what I see here.
The SD was love at first sight like my RD 350, all others were fun looking enough to hang out in a stall. Same with this bike but it is not a direct replacement.

Sorry.

I'm liking what I see so far. As said, I wish some of the RC8R's styling went into it. I'll wait until the 3rd generation of this new SD to pick one up.

Whats that aluminium lump bolted to the front of the engine, looks like an external oil tank to me

I can see a big old truck rad hiding under those new front spoilers to

Front fender, seat, subframe, battery location and pegs just dont look right.

As someone who raised the seat height on my 07 SD to benefit my crap knees all I can say is OUCH. Is it me or does that side stand look really short?

Hey it's a start.I never thought KTM would put a better motor than they have for the RC8. I think by the pics it's not done yet and by production time who knows. I know one thing I went for a ride on my duke today.Did the same route I did last week on my RC8 and my duke was more fun.I just can't get away from that duke. By far the most fun bike I ever have owned. I put my RC8 R wheels on my standard RC8 tonite gonna ride it tomorrow we will see how much differance it makes.All I want is my duke with that motor in it with all the R goodies.Wheels, carbon etc and I would be happy.
One thing is .there is hope.But I'm with nerd I would wait a year first year models have gremlins. Ducati and Aprilia are proof of that.
The USA won't get a first year model anyway.Too many 08's left.The price is gonna be crazy anyway. Any guesses? I say $16,999.00 and thats the low side.

I think that the tank is`not for Sd . Takeaway the Gastank and it will look nice with some decals and orange/black color .

Just hope that it not is to heavy , it looks rather heavy .

And lets hope for 150bhp +

In my world Ktm fail if they make this bike to heavy ..say max 10kg + from earlier Sd .

Well we will soon know i hope .

I like it, becaust it looks not too far away from the actual astonning looking SD. I think the exhaust system (collector under the engine and 1 exhaust like new duke 690) is a good compromise between noise and efficiency/power (yes most countries have noise regulations ) - but we have to get used to it or we change it...

I like the fact they moved the exhaust. Not a big fan of underseat units. And single exhaust makes it cheaper to replace and lighter.

The exhaust is the least of our worries (easily and most likely changed by owner). It's the other things that can't be changed easily that worry me! Price should be in line with the new Tuono APRC (all the electrical goodies) and Ducati SF - $15K.

Hate to say it but hat Tuono is starting to look better and better.

Not me!

I'm relieved and think that it looks great - will be even better when production ready. I'd seriously think about getting one in a years time. I thought they were going to soften it up too much but it looks pretty mean and aggressive to me. And it's a KTM so it's way better than an Aprilia, Ducati, Triumph etc. Always will be!

for fun I've added a poll. Vote time people

At this point nearly twenty percent go for a complete miss
The only way this bike makes a difference is to those that are too fat to loft the front on the less SuperDuke
Maybe I was hoping for the same bike only scarier.
Like I don't scare myself enough already.

Nope. Not doing it. On the basis of one lousy pic and a lot of idle speculation by some dork whose job it is to sell ad space - not gonna vote. Hate to see KTM make any final decisions based on a poll here - LOL. Yeah, right. Pretty convinced no one in their marketing department gives a rat's ass what our views are.

Not interested in a Diavel or like product. KTM PowerParts going to sell a forward controls kit? How about an extended swingarm - polished? 300-series rear wheel kit anyone? If there's one thing I loathe - is a heavy bike. And a bike that doesn't turn quick. I may have to go into the Tuono headlight replacement business. Or seek a rashed out S1000RR. But I gotta roll with Lowrance's thoughts - just gimme a damn RC8R that looks like the SuperDuke I have. Like that French rendering. Good to go.

For now, happy with the 'ol 08 SD as it is. Still encourages bad behavior and generates big grins. No problem waiting to see what the actual new product will be, but I ain't buyin' no power-cruiser with ABS, or anything namby-pamby that caters to an aging market.

I voted...
I'm not really interested or ready for a new S.D...I'm several years behind many on the forum..
I'm just now having fun with my current 999

I AM excited to see KTM making some advancements in technology..

I DO have to agree with Nerd...
will all the extras we've become fond of be available.??? rear sets...cans..etc
It will take the aftermarket community time to address shortcomings...

AND..sorry to say..I'm a member of the aging market...
Bigger isn't always better..

I bet the Indians will love it

On the tank issue, in the write up it says its the same as the new Adventure along with the frame (different sub-frame) and engine.

I do think it does look more like an evolution of the current one though. I also guess there will be a lower cowl as there seem to be some lugs on the front of the "oil tank" (I'm looking at the paper, so they may not be visible in the pic on here)

I think corner entry is going to be greatly sacrificed on this version
Time to get your kicks on the straights just like the Harley crowd.
If the Daivel is in the details then KTM need only to remove de tail.

In the slow black livery to start with too eh.

Maybe it Was a short person testing so the los seat , i think when finished it will be good

man i thought i was a jaded person! you guys actually think KTM is going to come up with a replacement for the SD that handles like a Harley in a straight line.
their bikes keep getting better and better. do you think the 690 is a worse handling bike than the previous version?
what kind of sales strategy would that be? imagine sitting in on that meeting at KTM.

" ... alright next?... ah yes the next version of the SD. good, i see here that the current version is way too radical so here are our targets (sounds of agreement). taking into consideration that out competition is the Tuono and the Street fighter, what we are going to do is fatten our SD up. lets make it quite a bit heavier, see if we can lose some ground clearance as well. lets put in a bigger engine say a 1190, no wait, lets make it a 1290 but lets decrease the power
wouldnt want to scare anyone would we? (uncomfortable laughter heard around room) thats good a good place to start boys, we should sell millions of them!!"

The seating position looks way too cramped... I love the leg room on the current SD... They should do a version with a taller seat by about two inches

all i have to say to that is take a look at the Ducati Panagale. they were showing us spy shots of that forever and if you go back and look at it it was pretty much all there right from the first image, even with the tape and postit note thingies all over it, it didnt change much.
like it or not i think this is pretty much what its gonna look like, remember the spy shots of the 690, that turned out almost exactly like the finished product. same thing with the 990 supermoto.[/quote]



There was alot of pics of the new V4 Tuono posted and i seem to remember they look nothing like the end product.
Shame really as some of the early mockups looked good

I voted "meh." I have to see the whole thing and test ride it before I decide if its my next bike. Same with the V4 Too Homo.

The height thing, well, I'm a short shit, so a lower height might be more inviting. BUT, I don't think this bike is short at all. The front forks are so compressed in that photo its impossible to tell how tall the front of the bike is. (The top of the fork is level with, or even below, the top of the caliper. That thing is going to need some new seals.) And if the front rises, the seat height will rise.

I think that you can see a oil sight tube reccessed into an oil resevoire. We ought to have a poll on weather this bike is closer to the real McCoy than to a pre prod. prank.
I will state that if there is maked differanc between the Streetfight and the Daivel most of the measurable differances will be closer to the Daivel than the Streetfighter.
KTM did not put a 190 series tyre on this bad boy. KTM jumped on a bandwagon and will go along for the ride. Obviously Ducati and their marketing is something KTM are watching very carefully. In regards to this being a cutting edge piece from the bowels of Orange blooded free thinkers, seems too close to the compitition to claim any new Patents. What, they want to show the world they can hang a tyre off one side?
Follow the leader. This one will be their Ready To Raise model. This is not raising the bar this is drinking at the same bar.

Even if the seat does rise a millimeter or two when forks are not tied down the tank is goin to rise substantially more.

To answer Klink's question, I mentioned in a previous thread a while back that in 2003 KTM wanted to build a naked street bike. The only bikes they really had to compete against back then were the Monster and Tuono and they determined they could do that with a bike based on the Adventure. They went this way because it was the quickest and most cost effective way to get into the segment. They managed to build a surprisingly good bike, great in the eyes of many (myself included). They acheived performance and handling equal to or better than the competition of the day.

It's almost 10 years later, the competition has moved on substantially and by basing their naked bikes on sportbikes have set the bar much higher. I don't see how a naked sportbike based on the Adventure will be able to compete at this new level (I hope I'm wrong).

KTM could have erased all speculation and doubt by simply basing the new SD on the RC8R. You'd have the best frame, suspension with a proper rising rate linkage (and ride height adjustable), chassis and riding position adjustability, great motor, etc. etc. And ...a great looking bike to boot (see below)! Would be relatively cheap to accomplish as well (R&D already done).

Instead, they give us this? While the obvious styling cues are akin to the original SD the overall shape (peg/bar/seat/tank relationship) is not naked sportbike. It appears to be a cross between a naked streetbike and a sit in cruiser (forward foot controls, good one!). SS swingarm? Who the fook asked for that boat anchor?

The motor, suspension and brakes may be all well and good but sorry, the rest of the bike is found wanting unless there are some major revisions between now and the final product.

IMHO.

>

Just for shits and giggles I grabbed the spec for the Street Fighter and the Daivel. As I said, It is my belief that the new SD is imulating the Daivel much more than it is extending the SD mantra we were hoping for. I hope I am wrong put this photo seem to bode well for my theory.
StreetFighter
Seat 33"
rear wheel width 5.5"
rear tyre size 190
dry weight 373
rake 25.6* trail 5"
wheel base 58.1"

Daivel
seat 30.3"
rear wheel width 8"
rear tyre syze 240
dry weight 460
rake 28* trail 5.12
wheelbase 62.6"

I am betting a dollar to a donut they made you boyz a new beelzebub. I mean Super BUB

[quote="Lowrance"]Even if the seat does rise a millimeter or two when forks are not tied down the tank is goin to rise substantially more.

i certainly hope when you load your bike the suspension compresses more than a millimeter! i snug mine down almost the full amount which must be what 3 - 4 inches.

heres a thought, if KTM wanted to go up against the Daivel, why not just use the engine and make a new platform. it wouldnt make sense
to do that and tag it a "Super Duke". they did just that and called it an "Adventure" to compete in that market. no, KTM's moto is "Ready to race"! not "Ready to cruise"
the SDs competition is not the Diavel but the Tuono, and the Streetfighter, totally different market. yes they are trying to make bikes that are more acceptable to the masses but that is at an entry level.
the SD, RC8R, are flagship bikes and id like to think they considered that market. didnt they say they checked in on this very site from time to time? lets have a little faith fellas!

I do hope the seat/tank layout in this photo is some sort of weird fish eye optical illusion.

One thing I did notice and find intriguing is the apparent lack of a front motor mount. Looks as if there is a mount between the V and at the swingarm pivot point but I cannot see any other attachment points for the lump.

So is it really only me who isnt `feeling it` ?

I really do hope the finished product looks nothing like that photo.

When i saw the very 1st SD i was instantly in love, i always wanted a naked but was never gonna settle for an ill handling clumsy peice of shit like a Bandit and the looks/specs of the original SD made it perfect for what i wanted (originally back road scratching but something that could still be fun on the track), then they did the original Battle race series and i was sold

From that photo all i see is -

A fookin ugly tank
A fookin ugly seat unit
A bike no where near as nimble looking as the original
A backwards step

I certainly wont be saving my pennies looking at that pic

By reading some of these posts about slow handling, heavy Super Duke 1300 if I didn't know better I'd think some of you guys had actually ridden the darn thing already. I'll wait until the production version arrives, the mags start testing it, and I test ride one one before I start to panic that KTM has ruined the Super Duke. At this point all I've seen is a pre-production bike strapped to a trailer with tiedowns and people have already declared that the next SD is going to be some kind of cruiser. Also, yes they could have stripped down an RC8R and thrown Duke badges on it and called it a day but the SD was never a true naked sports bike. To me that's always what made it a better road bike than some of its competitors. If all I wanted was a sportbike with a more comfortable riding position I'd go buy a CBR1000R and replace the clip-ons with an LSR handlebar and be done with it. In the end everyon's concerns about the bike they see in the spy shot may be founded but to declare based on one picture that the new bike will be an ill-handling, overweight pig is a bit premature don't you think?

I was quite pleased to see that.

It looks that they won't go the easy route to undress the rc8 but doing a proper naked from scratch but looking to what was well done with the current SD/SDR.

I believ it needs a loot of work, but it's going to be ok

I haven't read through this whole thread yet, and I can't answer the poll because it lacks the option "Hmmm. Interesting, but depends on how much nanny-tronics are put on it (your know there will be on a potential wheelie monster like this), whether they can be overridden and how it handles. To quote the inestimable Colonel Klink, however, "Jesus Wept"

As soon as they are in the dealers I'll be having a test ride

I won't be buying one though

Why is it a problem if indeed the new SD shares the same frame as the Adv? It worked brilliantly first time round didn't it?

I am pleasantly surprised as some here are saying it does look a little on the heavy side I guess we will have to wait for the specs for that to be confirmed. All I can say is that at least at this stage they don't appear to have gone down the Duke 690 bollywood/chav route, hopefully they have a two part marketing strategy where the smaller capacity machines styling are aimed at the clueless younger rider while the larger capacity retain faithful to KTMs restrained yet individual design philosophy. The biggest thing they have to get right is to make a machine with decent fueling and suspension for the road so they are not continually getting trounced in magazine tests. 165 ktm hp imagine what I could do to the v4 tuonos at the track.

Goddamit Strat! For fook Sake.

When did I ever say I thought it was going to be a dog?

Get your fooking facts straight.

There, now I'm done.

Obviously, I'm just not getting it..........not the first time I assure you. I apologize to those who continue to passionately tell me why the new bike won't be any good based on the photo of this pre-production bike. Why again must the new SD be derived from a sport bike to make for a worthy successor to the current model? How is the bike in the picture comparable to a Diavel? Does an extra 90 to 100cc's more than the RC8R push the new SD into the cruiser category whereas if they had kept it at 1200 it would have been nimble and sporty? To be honest, I couldn't care less if the SD evolved from adventure bikes and super moto's as opposed to a proper sport bike, the design just plain works for the street. I honestly do not care if the Tuono or Streetfighter are faster around a track because they are derived from sport bikes. I could name a lot of dedicated racer reps that are more capable track bikes than either of those bikes. So what? The SD is a great street bike that can be taken to the track if you want but nothing in the naked bike class can compete with an inexpensive Japanese litre bike on the track (assuming riders of equal skill). And the comparison to the CB1000 just downright silly. The new SD should have 40+ rear wheel horsepower on that thing and how much do you want to bet they will be similar in weight? The CB is no flyweight after all.

I also find it fun speculating and talking to you guys about the new model but it really it is just speculation at this point.

All this reminds me of when the first shots of the Ducati 999 appeared in the press

Ok, one more.

Inexpensive Japanese litre bikes? Don't know if you've checked the prices lately but they are all hoverring around the $14K mark (before tax).

The average age of motorcyclists in the US is 46. That's me. We're getting too old to fold ourselves into pretzels to ride the latest race reps on the street or track. I still want all of the performance without a weekly visit to the chiropractor. Most of the European manufacturers have started figureing this out. I'm still waiting on the Japs to get a clue but they keep feeding us these POS neutered nakeds presumably to prevent impacting their sportbike sales. Well I hate to be the one to inform them, their sales have been impacted by folks like me buying the no compromise full performance Euro nakeds.

The last decade it was the Superduke hands down (at least until the SF came along in 09) as far as I'm concerned and I would like to stay with KTM and the new SD. But based on what I've seen I do not have high hopes. The other bikes/manufacturers I mentioned previously have used the right formula to achieve what most of us ex racer/sportbike riders are looking for. The new KTM, by using the same formula they did at the begining of the last decade, does not look like it will meet my and many others needs. You can have just as good a street bike derived from either a sportbike or an adventure type bike but on track...I'll take the former.

What's the body weight on that thing - looks like they porked it out a bit more.

their head is in the right place with the HP rating but - Dudes/KTM why the move AWAY from the lean mean streetfighter/naked look - you know the "HOOLIGAN" style.

whatever.

Curious on the weight

Just back from the MCN Bike show in London. Aprilia weren't there which was a surprise. I did see a Tuono V4 on another stand though and it will never work for me. The thing is tiny I'm 6.1 and that is a mini moto underneath me. It really is just a RSV4 minus plastics. Great if you are 5.8 or smaller but any bigger and it really is going to feel tiny underneath you. I'm sure it handles anazingly on track but that's because its a sports bike minus the plastics and with straight bars. Sorry but def not the naked bike for me. Still fancy a test ride though just to see what the V4 is like.

Oh and whoever said its like the Ducati Diavel is having a laugh. Saw and sat on that today and it looks and feels nothing like a current SD and certainly doesn't look like that pic either. Yuk!

What did KTM bring?

Nothing The big show in the UK now is the Birmingham one in Nov time. All manufactures are there but London only tends to have the big guys at the moment. Was surprised Aprilia weren't there though.

I'm still sticking with the new bike being a real road bike, not the naked hooligan crazy it accidantly became through great engineering. If the new SD has a 190 series rear tyre, I'll eat another word or two. It will fall in between SF and not closer to ugly faced homos

Being in the business of product development and, more crucially, marketing I have to put in my opinion here in response to the posts on this thread - which I find a bit hysterical really.

What we all know about KTM is that they have two distinct values which are very important to them. One is that they are true motorcycle enthusiasts and their bikes are well thought out, designed by people who think about what 'riders' want. OK this comes out as "ready to race" which, (as has been pointed out here), is a bit of a marketing slogan and not absolutely true - but it does capture the essence in which they try and develop their bikes. The other important factor is that they are a small, Austrian company who have had to compete against the huge resources of the big Japanese four, the Italian lot, Triumph and that German company. They've done really well in the last decade because they've come up with some gems of bikes, (from Supermotos, adventure bikes, and now learner bikes, not to mention their core skill around off road machines. Paris Dakar anyone?), that deliver and appeal to a small but growing number of discerning customers.

You guys, are all part of this small, but appreciative group of people who are already KTM converts. Me too. I'll always be one of them - and am proud to be loyal to a company I spotted and started supporting a long, long time ago.

But when you are a growing company that has ambitions to be bigger and a global force things change. You have to get more money and maybe get some backing - so they join forces with an Indian giant who can inject more capital and potential into the business. You start to look for other ways to grow your business - and that includes the learner market, the massive opportunities in commuter bikes, and crucially appealing to the masses - not just guys like us.

And when you're a marketing led company, (which they undoubtably now are), they have to ask people what they want. And that means market research, testing, listening to the potential target market. Trying out ideas and concepts and showing people what they might do. OK they're not asking me and you direct. We are too small a niche group. It's not that they don't care, they know we are fans, they know we will be looking at their next product whatever they do. They want to connect with the thousands and thousands of people out there who DON'T know what a KTM is. Who DON'T want a hard styled, all or nothing bike, who want an exciting, but maybe less challenging concept of a bike to own.

Lets face it. The majority of bikers and potential customers out there are NOT YOU GUYS!

So, in my opinion the next SD will be everything a KTM should be. They will give the market what they need to do to be successful. As you guys have pointed out, they know what they are up against. They will deliver a package that has a competitive BHP output. They will ensure it handles brilliantly on road and track because that is what they know it will be judged against. They will make sure that it generates rave reviews however it is tested - they have an excellent track record of achieving this - don't doubt them now.

But it will also be styled and executed in a way that is designed to appeal to a much broader market. It will, maybe, appear to be 'less hard'. It may be less uncompromised. It may look less aggressive and have a few things which we all feel make it a 'softer, dumbed down option". But this will be because it was designed to sell to a broader market.

And we can get hold of it and do our thing to it. Strip off the SAS, junk the huge silencers and CAT. Fit race rear sets and take off the safety features and ABS. etc. etc. MAKE IT LOOK MORE AGRESSIVE. Change the ride height. Isn't this what we've always done to our bikes anyway. fook, in the 70's the bikes that came out of Japan were NOWHERE near what we wanted. You had to change EVERYTHING.

You guys seem to want everything done for you.

This bike will be a HUGE advancement on the current design we all ride and love. It will be a BETTER BIKE. KTM have NEVER designed a shit bike to my knowledge. But they could easily design bike that was aimed at a mass market and looked shit, (started with the Duke and LC4 already). But I've been converting them for over thirty years in to the bikes I really want to own.

I just intend to continue to do so.

Rant over.

Yes but fuel has changed a lot over the last 10 years. Now we have the miracle additive Ethanol that gives lower mileage, deforms nylon tanks and drives up corn prices. I guess what I should have said was I'm surprised Aprilia didn't update their new models with a tank material that is impervious to Ethanol. Ducati's latest models have been equipped with either polyethylene (as on the Monster Evo and Diavel) or aluminium (Panigale). The Streetfighter was the last model to get the old style polyamide tanks and they are deforming at a hgh rate......see the poll they have going on the Streetfighter forum of the % of guys whose tanks are deforming. I believe it's more than half. Hopefully, KTM will do the right thing and skip the nylon junk and use something more appropriate considering the current state of US fuels.

[quote="bic_bicknell"]Being in the business of product development and, more crucially, marketing I have to put in my opinion here in response to the posts on this thread - which I find a bit hysterical really.

OK this comes out as "ready to race" which, (as has been pointed out here), is a bit of a marketing slogan and not absolutely true - but it does capture the essence in which they try and develop their bikes.

its partially marketing but also has some truth behind it. no one really has a bike you can race out of the box. but it doesnt take a lot of prep work to make their off road bikes highly competitive.
then, as mentioned, there is Dakar, i believe when they were allowed to run the LC4 at Dakar, you could actually buy a full bore factory prepped machine from them.
also their arent a lot of companies who offer motorcycles with full slicks and no street legal amenities at all (ok Ducati used to). thats pretty close to race ready in my book.
in fact i myself bought a 525 with slicks (i did have them put street tyres on it when i picked it up...) right off the floor that i technically shouldnt have been able to register!

Wow ,This has become one hell of a thread. I feel KTM wants to the right thing but they have to sell bikes All the left over dukes I'm sure put a dent in the bottom line.
I am sure they don't want to do that again. Being in the business I understand how things work.The dealers must go to the yearly meeting and read their crystal ball.They have order what they think they can sell.

Here is the problem lets say you see a winner you want to order 50 but to get 50 you have take a few dogs as well.
Also it depends on your numbers from last year. The MFG will only give you so many even if you know you could sell more.It's sucks here you have a bike that you could sell 30units and they will send you 5 units.

Aprilia is the worst for that. I have owned ape's I hear people in the US saying they want to buy an ape.I say where you going to go?
Please name a dealer.I was at Pro Itaila which is a big Ducati shop and aprilia They had no apes in stock but had a ton of ducks.
If you want order the rsv4 you will have to buy shivers DD's etc maybe for every RSV4 you must buy 5 of a bike that you know won't sell.
The Japanese have been doing this for years.

Every mfg does it differant I hear Ducati is good the lets you buy what sells.Now back to KTM why are there no RC8R 2012 in the shops? Not even SMT's
Someone said no MFG make a race ready race bike.I disagree The track RC8 R Track bike is ready to go even comes with all the go fast goodies and slicks.
This bike can not be ridden on the street period.Race it or track it.I see them on cycle trader but I can not see them in dealers shops.
Inventory is very low on KTM's Bottom line Dealers are afraid to stock too many 20k's bikes.

Then comes getting these bikes worked on.With aprilia the techs did not have proper training on these new bikes with all the gadgets.
Trust me I went to 4 had to sell it. KTM I am a little bummed I am having trouble finding a dealer that knows the RC8 and this bike is not that crazy with gadgets. The dealers don't want to spend the money to send their tech to KTM schools.This I know for a fact I have talked to the tech at differant shops.

The more stuff they put on these bikes the tougher it will be to get them worked on. I thinking BMW are the ony dealers that seem to have the right idea.
I have several BMW dealers that buy from me.They get sent to training all the time.KTM dealers need to get on the ball and know what they sell.If you have a dirtbike they know it.
Have an RC8 and your rolling the dice.

So if KTM is going to make a new amazing duke.I hope they do I would love to see it.How much will it be? How many will they send to the USA?
Will the dealers order them.The RC8 is amazing and they are tough to find. What about all the left over 08's
So many questions I know I can not afford to buy a 18k duke.I will buy the bike when they lower the price to half because only a few got sold.Or they will only send a few so they sell all the send. then they can get full price and be happy.

How many people bought dukes at full price only to see them sell for half a year later.I know I would be pissed.
This happed to me on a Honda in the 80's Now the Japanese don't send a ton of bikes any more In fact they make less than demand and that keeps the price up.Sure you get a discount. Then get ripped on dealer prep etc.

The motorcycle business has changed.I will be at the Dealer expo this month. Any mfg worth there salt will be there I will dig for all the info I can on this new duke. KTM will be there so will Aprilia I know this tread has made me think.I want to know so if I can get some answers from the horses mouth I will.

I will do my best to find out and get back to you guys.
Mean while know that our dukes are still amazing It's hard not to fall in love with this bike.They still handle like a sportbike you don't have to have a perfect track to go fast this is what make a true classic Ride it anywhere on anything it love it.I ride on roads that are pure crap The duke never complaines it just goes. You can't say that with a lot of the newer bikes.

I just want to say one thing .I was looking at the pic.I noticed one thing there is no orange on the bike anywhere.All dukes have some orange some where on the bike.My wht/blk a has orange spring. or the writing on the shroud has orange writing.Ktm always has a little orange somewhere.
My RC8 has a little orange.So where is the orange? just something to think about. this bike has no orange so this tells me something is wrong.
The signature orange is missing.So I say this is a big mistake .Think about it when did you see a duke with out some kind if orange on the bike
If some one finds it let me know.I don't believe this is real.

Maybe if it was orange everyone would know it was KTM prototype. Most prototype bikes are black, panigale etc.

I think this is going to be The new speed triple R is 11k Tuono 11.5k I think with the ABS, traction control and single sided swinger its going to be around that price.

Single sided swingers look cool but only if the wheel looks good too.

Plus I dont think it will crash as well as the old SD.

is your chain a bit tight in that pic Crotchy?

I am going to have to slow down Mark. My arms don't fit in the Euro jackits It's tough to get my alpinestar stuff on and off.
What can I say I love guns. I have been doing a lot of cardio trying to build my stamina. I just wish I could drop the weight.

I was having some fun at the gym and a kid bet me I could not bench my weight. $100.00 bucks I said how many times? he knew then he was screwed
240 lbs I asked him if he would pay $100.00 for every time. He said he would go 2 times after all I am an old fart right?
I did it 5 times just for the hell of it. Got my 200 bucks. That paid for track day gotta love it.
I love it 4 years ago I was a cripple. With the grace of God I got a second chance.This time I am not waisting it.

I feel like a kid again The track has lit a fire that I never thought would light again and all my friends at the track I am blessed to have them.

Plus I have a brother I never knew I had. One day I am going to get out there.I got to see IOM just once. I have been dreaming about that race since I was 18.To see those guys get air at that speed will blow my mind.

Those guys have balls size of baskitballs.

Geeze its hot. Wow really hot in here. You think its hot in here? Maybe its just me. Maybe its just my age or something...

I'm basically with BIC on this one. KTM will release a bike that will attract new customers AND keep the faithful happy. I'm optimistic.

My take on that picture is that it shows some things that are nearly finished (Eg the engine) and other things that will do for testing. In terms of styling I think we are seeing bits and pieces of the various options that have been tried and sometimes adopted and sometimes rejected. That's why the styling is basically KTM but is also why the whole thing doesn't have that "integrated" feel. That swing arm looks very much a prototype. Could end up in production but could also be dropped.

If one looks at the individual bits I believe certain conclusions can be reached. That seat arrangement for example, shows that they are fooling around with something that gets around the problem of the "R" seat without having a twin seat as per the 2012 R. Now the illustrated solution is nothing new but it indicates that they are working on options. The rear end is the same - track-like rear end with a fuck-ugly plate carrier bolted on. Tank shrouds don't match the tank. In fact, they have a horizontal line that is more in keeping with the Venom.

Overall, my feeling is that what we are seeing is a mule that uses bits and pieces out of the parts bin. Based on those parts the next bike could replace both the RC8 AND the Superduke. It could be the same bike with clothes either on or off which makes sense from a manufacturing perspective.

If the production bike ends up anywhere like this I'm glad that they are exposing the engine a bit more (whats the point of a naked if it hasn't got a plunging neckline ). I also like to see throttle bodies but am wondering whether there is any airbox in there in this photo.

I'll always take more power if its offered!!! And it doesn't have to come at the expense of dynamics and handling... that's dictated by chassis and suspension geometry for the most part so BRING ON THE PONIES!!!

Owh sorry about that one,

Ehm well i guess they were inspired by the Comanche attack helicopter and got a bit of help from the dude that designed the 007movie stealh ship right?. I like the design but needs a tiny bit of curves, little less Cadillac design. my 2c

look'n at this again .

2 things -

1. Did they lower the seat height ? kinda looks like it.
2. Looks like they made those damn gas tank skirts bigger yet !!! Supposto b a naked bike , shouldA got rid of those thins all togetha . Woulda rock'd.

the rear looks like it'll lend itself beautifully to a tail tidy set up.

It's a buy in my book . And if it truly has 165 hp with all the stock BS on it imagine what ya could get with some fiddlin - maybe 180 right ? Now we're really talking superbike.

awesome

They're not structual (a little but not really) but they are functional. They help direct cooling air into the radiator. Kind of a hold over from their dirt bike designs.

Hmmmm..........????

Cannot believe there are soo many KTM roadbike Fans, on this Forum.

Yous "Will" buy. Whatever floats your boat.

No point in discussion.

You only live once.

Was just browsing the RC8 section and remembered the 2011 bike is twin spark. Wonder if we will be seeing that in the new 1290?

I would think so with tightening emissions laws and all that. New 690 Duke has the twin spark as well.

Sweet More efficient burn means more power doesn't it. Smoother too.

Just saw this.



HA!

^^^^Have you read any of this thread?^^^^

The seat height has already been talked about quite a lot