Bazzaz is releasing a fuel injection controller with Auto tuning for the KTM LC8. One member just installed a unit on his 990 Adventure and has a ride report in the Orange Crush section. Chris at Bazzaz said it will work doe all of the LC8 bikes. You can add traction control and a speed shifter option for you track day guys.
Bazzaz unit is out!
18 posts · Started by samba · 20 Jul 2011
Post 2 by BASH69,
#2TC? that's new....
Post 3 by SuperDuke-DK,
#3http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=708502
Hers the thread, doesnt really tell us alot TBH and Bazzaz arnt listing anything for the 990LC8 engine on the website yet
Hers the thread, doesnt really tell us alot TBH and Bazzaz arnt listing anything for the 990LC8 engine on the website yet
Post 4 by indy84,
#4Interresting news....
Any chance you know where to buy the ZFi-TC model.....
Any chance you know where to buy the ZFi-TC model.....
Post 5 by SuperDuke-DK,
#5any idear on price??
Post 6 by BASH69,
#6Price is proably similar to other units with same features.
Here in DK they cost nearly the same for different bikes....i hope that will be the like that with the SD.
Here in DK they cost nearly the same for different bikes....i hope that will be the like that with the SD.
Post 7 by Stupid Luke,
#7Here in the UK the basic unit for all bikes is £680 plus £120 for the traction control dial/map switch!
Your looking at the best part of £1000 by the time youve added dyno time etc!
Your looking at the best part of £1000 by the time youve added dyno time etc!
Post 8 by indy84,
#8Not really worth it for a most of us with Superdukes and certainly not worth it for an Adventure.
Unless of course you bought a really cheap Superduke as a trackbike i.e 3500 quid plus 1000 for traction control could be fun.
I have looked at these before it isnt proper traction control either, it just does really clever maths to work out wheels speed against revs
Really would love to put one on a RC8R trackbike though. Assuming I could then find an exhaust quiet enough to get it on to trackdays.
Unless of course you bought a really cheap Superduke as a trackbike i.e 3500 quid plus 1000 for traction control could be fun.
I have looked at these before it isnt proper traction control either, it just does really clever maths to work out wheels speed against revs
Really would love to put one on a RC8R trackbike though. Assuming I could then find an exhaust quiet enough to get it on to trackdays.
Post 9 by SDNerd,
#9I know a few people that have put the Bazzaz TC system on and regardless of whether its a 'true' system or not it works nicely.
Post 10 by Twisted Jester,
#10Post missing
This post could not be recovered from the original forum.
Post 11 by samba,
#11The Bazzaz TC is "real". Its not imaginary, or work by some form of magic. It really does detect wheelspin, and intervene to aid in maintaining traction.
Yes, it monitors the rate of change of engine (and therefore wheel) speed as a function of throttle input, etc - which is fully a metric by which the degree of wheelspin (loss of traction) can be defined. It uses no additional sensors to do the sensing. Some other systems use wheel rings (like those used with ABS systems, or on some systems - the same rings), with and without the bike's pitch and roll consideration (tilt sensors and/or accelerometers). The wheel sensor type measures not only wheel and engine rate of change relative to control inputs, but also relative to the bike's speed (like ABS sensors).
The nice thing about the Bazzaz, is that its pretty much a plug-and-play unit which also has all the mapping capability of PCIII/V, and an integral quickshifter capability which allows full throttle clutchless upshifts. User can set the amount of wheelspin allowed (optional h'bar switch is available). An optional autotuning module eliminates the need for any dyno time for optimum mapping (yes, O2 sensor based ...).
How the "control" part works (oversimplified), when wheelspin (traction loss) is detected (by whatever scheme), power is progressively cut - regardless of throttle input, to end wheelspin (restoring traction, and likely sliding). Its done in a manner to least upset the chassis, then power is gradually fed back in as traction is restored. All this can happen before the rider can drop the throttle. There are varying schemes in the power reduction including reduced fuel delivery to one or more cylinders, timing retardation or a combination of that.
The Bazzaz is a tempting product, but I don't know how useful it is for the expert-level rider on a bike that make only a little more than 100HP (SD) - even on the track. Don't get me wrong, I've spun up 70HP bikes where the bike stepped out so bad, it was amazing I didn't highside a few times - but I didn't just drop the throttle when it happened. For some, it might be a real bacon saver.
On an RC8R, until KTM comes up with their own TC, I'd pop for a Bazzaz in a heartbeat.
Yes, it monitors the rate of change of engine (and therefore wheel) speed as a function of throttle input, etc - which is fully a metric by which the degree of wheelspin (loss of traction) can be defined. It uses no additional sensors to do the sensing. Some other systems use wheel rings (like those used with ABS systems, or on some systems - the same rings), with and without the bike's pitch and roll consideration (tilt sensors and/or accelerometers). The wheel sensor type measures not only wheel and engine rate of change relative to control inputs, but also relative to the bike's speed (like ABS sensors).
The nice thing about the Bazzaz, is that its pretty much a plug-and-play unit which also has all the mapping capability of PCIII/V, and an integral quickshifter capability which allows full throttle clutchless upshifts. User can set the amount of wheelspin allowed (optional h'bar switch is available). An optional autotuning module eliminates the need for any dyno time for optimum mapping (yes, O2 sensor based ...).
How the "control" part works (oversimplified), when wheelspin (traction loss) is detected (by whatever scheme), power is progressively cut - regardless of throttle input, to end wheelspin (restoring traction, and likely sliding). Its done in a manner to least upset the chassis, then power is gradually fed back in as traction is restored. All this can happen before the rider can drop the throttle. There are varying schemes in the power reduction including reduced fuel delivery to one or more cylinders, timing retardation or a combination of that.
The Bazzaz is a tempting product, but I don't know how useful it is for the expert-level rider on a bike that make only a little more than 100HP (SD) - even on the track. Don't get me wrong, I've spun up 70HP bikes where the bike stepped out so bad, it was amazing I didn't highside a few times - but I didn't just drop the throttle when it happened. For some, it might be a real bacon saver.
On an RC8R, until KTM comes up with their own TC, I'd pop for a Bazzaz in a heartbeat.
Post 12 by fatbob,
#12I believe all systems would have to use a mathematical algorithm to determine loss of traction, I would have thought wheel speed vs the engine speed would be an efficent way to do this, I imagine anti wheelie systems monitor the front wheel and TC the rear.
I do think it's probably a bit excessive for a relatively low powered SD though but having not ridden off road I couldn't say whether it is really a good thing to have in those conditions on an adventure, I'd have thought you might want to keep the revs up and power through not have them cut if on a mixture of surfaces but as I say, I have no experience in that, so I know nothing about what's required, it's just the thoughts that came into my head, at least I've never heard Sabre or anyone say cut your throttle to get traction, it's usually pin it to win it.
However, if you like to ride on track then in my mind traction control is just taking away from your own development as a rider, if my lap times were to improve and could suddenly get past my friends just because I could open the throttle earlier without fear of losing it then it wouldn't really be an achievement, it would be a false victory, if I learn how early and how much power I can lay down on my own then that is something real to be proud of.
We're not MotoGP riders riding for factories who need to put everything they can into a bike to be the fastest bike on track regardless, our careers don't depend on our results, we're all doing it for ourselves to ride our bikes to the best of our abilities.
I never really followed racing that intensely but one thing that sticks in my mind about the old school top racers was the mention of their amazing throttle control and how races could be won or lost as a result of throttle control alone.
It's potentially a nice safety net for road riding on the crappy uk roads if that's a concern but for that alone it's not something I'd be rushing out to spend money on.
It would be a laugh to try it out of course
I do think it's probably a bit excessive for a relatively low powered SD though but having not ridden off road I couldn't say whether it is really a good thing to have in those conditions on an adventure, I'd have thought you might want to keep the revs up and power through not have them cut if on a mixture of surfaces but as I say, I have no experience in that, so I know nothing about what's required, it's just the thoughts that came into my head, at least I've never heard Sabre or anyone say cut your throttle to get traction, it's usually pin it to win it.
However, if you like to ride on track then in my mind traction control is just taking away from your own development as a rider, if my lap times were to improve and could suddenly get past my friends just because I could open the throttle earlier without fear of losing it then it wouldn't really be an achievement, it would be a false victory, if I learn how early and how much power I can lay down on my own then that is something real to be proud of.
We're not MotoGP riders riding for factories who need to put everything they can into a bike to be the fastest bike on track regardless, our careers don't depend on our results, we're all doing it for ourselves to ride our bikes to the best of our abilities.
I never really followed racing that intensely but one thing that sticks in my mind about the old school top racers was the mention of their amazing throttle control and how races could be won or lost as a result of throttle control alone.
It's potentially a nice safety net for road riding on the crappy uk roads if that's a concern but for that alone it's not something I'd be rushing out to spend money on.
It would be a laugh to try it out of course
Post 13 by jambox,
#13all very good points TJ, but there are probably plenty of people who don't do trackdays to go faster and faster, and would appreciate the safety net on track as well as road
Post 14 by Ducati Pete,
#14I had a go of an R6 with a bazzaz system and i was well impressed with it, i have a S1000rr with all the bells and whistles and it didn't react much differently to that.
I would love to have a QS on an SD for the noise alone
I would love to have a QS on an SD for the noise alone
Post 15 by Twisted Jester,
#15Question, most people on the "" thread are saying no TC/interfering electronics. But but yet most people on here are saying its a good thing (except TJ). Why is this?
Post 16 by Twisted Jester,
#16Most posts on that thread are devoid of any common sense anyway.
Post 17 by fuel,
#17Re: "auto tune"--My dyno guy said he was not impressed with the PCV auto -tune as he thought it was always hunting/changing parameters, which affected driveability? Any comment or truth to that?
Post 18 by TLS_Russ,
#18Post missing
This post could not be recovered from the original forum.
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