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First Test Ride DNA Filter

364 posts · Started by KTM666 · 12 Jul 2011

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Post 1 by KTM666,

#1
Installed DNA filter tonight first impressions
1. Much deeper than MH
2. Filter much deeper
3. Might be slightly shorter (hard to tell as is so much shallower)

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Took it for a quick spin
Sounds completely different, pulls really hard from 4,000 makes a two tone noise ...I kept thinking I had a bike behind me
I would guess its making about 4 -5 bhp more all the way through..need to change gearing as it needs higher gear ...(I'm on :D 40r 16f)

Hitting 5mph more ...without trying

It needs mapping ......as my once perfect MH map is all over the place...running very weak at the top (poping and banging)

I will install 'R' Headers later this week then I will get it Dynoed at the same place as before.....I will then put all 3 dyno results on here (AKras, Akras & MH, Full Akras and DNA)

...OH yeah got to sort the handling .......its gone from on the money to shaking its head



....

Post 2 by tripoddave,

#2
That is truly huge. Its almost a surprise that the tank goes back on!
Looks fantastic BTW.
I'd love to know what effect one of those would have on my SD. I'm currently running no airbox at all and just fitting a mesh over the bell mouths cost me about 1.5 - 2bhp.

Post 3 by KTM666,

#3
It does two things gives you a Reservoir of relatively still air...helps with the air flow

and second and more importantly ...stops small boys and foreign objects being sucked down throttle bodies......it would worry the hell out of me....all you need is a small stone.......

Post 4 by Bert,

#4
Lookin' good!
Pity you are changing the headers before getting it dyno-ed.
Alot of people here are curious about how much the DNA will gain on the motobox.

Post 5 by KTM666,

#5
I wish I could afrord to do it in two stages.....to see exactly what gave what..... but money tree nearly picked clean.....(i was just going to do the filter...then I saw 'R' headers.... .....it would have been rude not to)

Post 6 by KTM666,

#6
The DNA is different in every way, you cannot interchange any part (ok the bolts that hold the temperature sensor …before some smart ass says) so…no copied design……no getting a machine shop to copy whats been developed by another.....so bang goes the Conspiracy theory

At the moment it is very Harsh.. Brutal even.....no where near as 'Rounded a package as the MH........I'm hoping that getting it customed mapped will bring the user Friendliness back ........it is looking good for extra bhp though ....as the MH map is so far out

Post 7 by Jermo,

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Post 8 by KTM666,

#8
The fuelling is so far off my perfect MH map it would be a waste of time..............its not even close

Post 9 by Jermo,

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Post 10 by PowerCell,

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Post 11 by Mr_Trecolareco,

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Post 12 by KTM666,

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Post 13 by Lowrance,

#13
It's MH's concept that was copied not the dimensions one for one. Conspiracy theory....no conspiracy here, just obvious.....obviously.

Post 14 by Jermo,

#14
You'll use the same dyno as with the MH box? Would be nice to print them both in the same graph.

Post 15 by Twisted Jester,

#15
Actually MH gets those filters custom made for him by K&N, they are specific to the Motobox.

People have been using airfilters sandwiched between two bits of metal for a long long time in cars and I've even seen harleys with something similar so I doubt anybody could patent that as a new concept.

Before the motobox or DNA was the mar box but that was really just two bits of flat metal that didn't hold the filter too good, which was an off the shelf item and was nowhere near as designed and machined as the motobox.

So regardless of anyone having any patents it doesn't take away from the fact that the DNA is very similar to the motobox and is being produced for the same relatively small market of motorcycles as the motobox, all they've done like a lot of manufacturers do is seen the popularity of an existing design and changed it just enough to call it their own by making it squarer and adding a taller filter as per the MK1 and then adding their own enhancements and improvements to come up with the stage 2 and 3 versions, nobody is saying what's being done is illegal or breaking any design rights but you've got to be kidding if you think that just putting a bigger filter in and changing the shape of the basic box design as per the MK1 version means that it's not based on the MH box. Sainsburys also make their own version of fruit shoots drinks for kids, the bottle is a slightly different shape and the ingredients are no doubt slightly different but it's still obvious where they came from.

Don't get me wrong all development on the SD is awesome in my book and I'm really looking forward to seeing your results, the MK3 definitely looks the part but I'm still giving credit to MH for the fully realised original.

Post 16 by drkwng,

#16
Sell me your MH box?

Post 17 by Stratkat,

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Post 18 by CEREC1,

#18
dude, im not sure because its been a while but doesnt the "R" have larger exhaust ports??? im not sure the headers will bolt up to the standard SD heads. the first gen SDR had the same engine/exhaust as the SD but i think the second gen is different??

Post 19 by KTM666,

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Post 20 by KTM666,

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Post 21 by TLS_Russ,

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Post 22 by TLS_Russ,

#22
Waiting

Post 23 by kevxtx,

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Post 24 by Dutch,

#24
Gee they look good, nice results so far just what I was hoping for, I have a before dyno run waiting & will post the results with the gains from the DNA air box.

Can't wait for mine I suppose Oz is a bit further away, any day now.

Post 25 by Twisted Jester,

#25
I think it's unlikely that Robinsons would knowingly make a similar product for half the price that will be stocked on the shelves next to their own, of course if they outsource the manufacturing to a third party now that's another matter, just like the KTM powerparts levers being made by TWM in italy, more than twice the price to have the KTM logo on them than to buy direct with the TWM logo.

Supermarket Home brand stuff made in the same factory though, I worked in a meat factory for a couple of days when I was younger and all the ready meal cottage pies and that sort of thing all came down the same line and then they just changed the cardboard sleeve to be Tesco or Sainsbury or whatever.

You're right about the SDR headers straight swap onto the SD, inlet and outlet of the exhaust is the same so it works with standard cans and ports, it is only that section in the middle that is enlarged.

It's only the proper full system headers that aren't a straight swap as although they fit the exhaust ports it is a bigger bore system all the way through and so needs its own specific cans.

Post 26 by Stratkat,

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Post 27 by KTM666,

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Post 28 by Superdan,

#28
Glad someone stood up as the stooge to try this

Look forward to seeing dyno results.

Post 29 by KTM666,

#29
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Post 30 by PowerCell,

#30
Hey 666 can you post up some pix of the filter element mating area? I'm currious how hard/easy it is to replace elements. One issue I do have to the MH box is replacing filters when I'm not in the shop. It can be a bit tricky to get them to settle correctly without removing the fuel tank...


Much thanks ~ Ken



.

Post 31 by Jermo,

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Post 32 by Jermo,

#32
Stooge, what did you pay for the MK3? I could only find the $ prices.

Post 33 by KTM666,

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Post 34 by Jermo,

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Post 35 by KTM666,

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Post 36 by Bert,

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Post 37 by Jermo,

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Post 38 by Superdan,

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Post 39 by KTM666,

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Post 40 by PowerCell,

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Post 41 by TLS_Russ,

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Post 42 by KTM666,

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Post 43 by TLS_Russ,

#43
The suspense is killing me

Post 44 by samba,

#44
Right ... taken off standard exhaust I did not expect them to be as different as that

Image

Below is my standard rear header....fresh from its run out the other night with the DNA Filter.....its nearly white I siad it was running weak......it must have been really running weak

Image

This will be mapped ASAP







.

Post 45 by KTM666,

#45
Thats really weak

Post 46 by TLS_Russ,

#46
hope you don't have an oil change coming up soon...

Post 47 by -JP-,

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Post 48 by KTM666,

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Post 49 by KTM666,

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Post 50 by TLS_Russ,

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Post 51 by KTM666,

#51
I think the little dip is where they come on cam....have to look more closely at 08 sd to see if it has this dip

See the Air/ Fuel line ...pretty good huh

What spec are you running?

Post 52 by TLS_Russ,

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Post 53 by -JP-,

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Post 54 by BASH69,

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Post 55 by KTM666,

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Post 56 by KTM666,

#56
Right that's the Akraopovic Headers Fitted.....something so right about the big fat headers

I was tempted to go for a test ride.....but after looking at the colour of the headers that I had taken off .....I think I will wait until I get it re-maped first.

Next stop dyno....see if I can get it booked in tomorrow

Post 57 by KTM666,

#57
Akrapovic Headers

Image

Bulls*"t stops

I Booked custom map & Dyno for 2pm today...so by tonight we will know.....for sure







.

Post 58 by TLS_Russ,

#58
I got the popcorn ready

Post 59 by KTM666,

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Post 60 by Bert,

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Post 61 by KTM666,

#61
Yes I did ...just not well.......... another tread on here recommended a certain oven cleaner...left it on over night (came down wearing sun glasses ...just in case) not much difference....I fitted them so I could get it on the Dyno ...

I Just have 'R' headers...so I think they are Stainless Steel anyway

Post 62 by BASH69,

#62
I have no interest in this mod (i dont even have an MH box anymore) but im watching with interest

Have you already removed the secondarys?

Post 63 by KTM666,

#63
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Post 64 by Mr_Trecolareco,

#64
Well, it should be on the dyno as I speak ehehe

Let us now the veridict ehehe

Post 65 by Lowrance,

#65
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Post 66 by cdlabate,

#66
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Post 67 by KTM666,

#67
Well I said this is where the bulls"*t stops.....DNA mk3 Filter and Akrapovic 'R' Down pipes

This is the before mapping run running weak ..but still making power earlier than MH Dyno man said it was all over the place still making 120.83bhp

Image

Right fueling sorted.....(To be honest I have seen better)...122.76bhp


Image


Not good....... it feels really fit and pulls cleanly from much lower

Excuses
its due a service.....but that should not make that much difference....it had baffles in ...but so do all my dyno runs, it was a lot hotter....Fridays not a good day for dyno runs.......er......er

Just off to call the Samaritains......with my luck .......they will hang up on me..........if anybody wants i'm on the top ledge

Let the 'I told you so commence....................'

Post 68 by CEREC1,

#68
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Post 69 by BASH69,

#69
Youve lost a shit load of torque there plus todays dyno runs were at a lower humidity

Im not sure i understand why really, everything youve done SHOULD give more power and torque but it just isnt, you obviously really need headwork to make use or the extra air!

Post 70 by KTM666,

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Post 71 by CEREC1,

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Post 72 by Crotchrockety,

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Post 73 by CEREC1,

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Post 74 by KTM666,

#74
DNA filters are thought to be as good if not better than K&N

Post 75 by Stratkat,

#75
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Post 76 by Stratkat,

#76
... i see there is one on the top plus the other in the normal location.

Post 77 by CEREC1,

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Post 78 by KTM666,

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Post 79 by KTM666,

#79
Strange... Must need headwork and/or other top end items adjusted. Cams, valves, porting, etc... Dont be bothered you will figure it out.
I had a small block chevy 406ci with the heads ported and I learned exhaust flow of roughly .75 of the intake flow was the best for making useable power... if there is a head shop with a flow-bench I would make that your next stop. Its all about the ratio of flow in and out. In the experience I have had anyway.
And get a hold of DNA and see what calculations they are using to come up with HP gain claims they are advertising.

Keep your head up!

Post 80 by BASH69,

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Post 81 by KTM666,

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Post 82 by KTM666,

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Post 83 by Lowrance,

#83
I'll give you £30 for the lot, I was watching this thread with.... well as much interest as all the others. i am happy with the std box an DNA filter (not really) so this mod is more than I care to spend on. but glad you did, wouldn't like that cash coming out my pocket for the results.

No, got to be honest, its a lovely looking box, a bit like a V8 super charger hidden under the bonnet of a mustang. worth getting all your mates round when you do a service just to show it off. can't see it being the top filter myself, some of the old mods done on the battle bikes had the top of the std box cut out and still made more BHP without turbulence. good luck,

Post 84 by Jermo,

#84
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Post 85 by KTM666,

#85
the engine must already be taking in enough air with aarons box, and as trippodave said at the start of the thread he lost power by removing box altogether, try sticking your head out the car window at 100mph, to tell the truth I would of been gutted if it had of been much better just got mine sorted with mhbox

Post 86 by KTM666,

#86
Thanks for posting up the results.

I tried looking back through the thread to find your dyno chart (or at least some numbers) with MH box installed and couldn't find anything. Can you re-post?

Thanks, John

Post 87 by Doon,

#87
I think the problem might be in the combination of open intake and header pipes but restricted at the db killers.

Post 88 by Twisted Jester,

#88
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Post 89 by drkwng,

#89
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Post 90 by KTM666,

#90
Good on you for trying, I think you would make more power with the standard headers.
I have seen this on Ducati superbikes with big exhausts, they loose torgue and power due to the valves being too small.

Post 91 by TLS_Russ,

#91
all I am saying is the engine must be getting enough intake as is, you can throw as much air and fuel at it as you like but it will only use what it can, dont get mme wrong its good to see someone had the balls to try it out, looks like next step is some head work

Post 92 by TLS_Russ,

#92
That's a shame dude, regardless of any discussions on what came first, pricing, etc, etc, I doubt there's anybody on here that wanted it to fail, I was looking forward to seeing you make some gains with it, not anything like the massive gain they say they got with the tuned SD but I thought we'd see something reasonable.

I was thinking the same as the others have mentioned, perhaps it just physically can't suck in any more air than it's getting already without getting the head flowed

Post 93 by KTM666,

#93
...I did....if 100% is good 150% ...MUST be better....not

Post 94 by TLS_Russ,

#94
Thats only human and the spin from DNA,

Good gains for DNA thats what the MK3 is about

Post 95 by TLS_Russ,

#95
My SD-R made exactly the same amount of power with the 2RT box as it did the motohooligan box.

Post 96 by TLS_Russ,

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Post 97 by Jermo,

#97
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Post 98 by TLS_Russ,

#98
That graph is smooth all the way through the rev-range so to me it doesn't look like the problem is the wider headers.

Post 99 by Jermo,

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Post 100 by TLS_Russ,

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Post 101 by Jermo,

#101
Yes thats the next step when I work out if I can make it a soft limiter with Tuneecu by cutting the fueling just before the ignition, 9800 cut fuel, 9,900 cut ignition,
step by step..... just finished tuning the drive train.... raise the limiter is next! Then I need an airfilter that will give gains right through the rpm range

Post 102 by TLS_Russ,

#102
Can't go wrong with the MH I'd say or wait for the MH MK2

Post 103 by Lowrance,

#103
Yep if DNA dont sort out KTM666s problem and we also get some REAL independent proof of gains on here I will be going with a nice black MH box,
I will give it a month to see what happens, time for DNA to put up or shut up

Post 104 by TLS_Russ,

#104
I think we may be over complicating things here a little. The SD can only use so much air. This is dictated by the cylinder charging volume and the diameter of the throttle bodies, etc. As the piston travels to BDC it draws air into the cylinder. Once it has it's full charge of 500cc it can use no more. The stock airbox with it's unbelievably small 3" x 1" inlet restricts the amount of air allowed into the cylinder during this process. The MH (and DNA) box provides enough air to facilitate a small block Chevy V8.

By increasing the filter surface area (via taller filter or additional filter in the top of the box) we are not allowing more air into the engine if the engine is already allowed all the air it can possibly use limited by the factors I stated above. The only way to get more air into the motor is through some form of forced induction (ie super or turbo charging) or larger injectors, larger valves, bigger ports in the cylinder head, required cam lift and duration and an ECU tune (ignition and fuel mapping) capable of making it all work. KTM have done this already in the SDR (albeit limited by the stock airbox).

John

Post 105 by KTM666,

#105
Getting the feeling MH was just sitting by smirking. Good move. I mean the claim of +22 HP's is on flowed and cammed and piped and EFI tuned motor--so basically a SDR-type hybrid. My SDR was at 132 RWHP's fully kitted, which would be about 20 HPs over a box-stock SD or SMR/T. SO yeah--if you change enough thing--like $2000++ worth--and add an airbox--voila! 22 HP's.

Post 106 by TLS_Russ,

#106
I would buy a taller filter for my MH airbox next time now I know there is one? - is the circumference the same?

Post 107 by TLS_Russ,

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Post 108 by KTM666,

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Post 109 by TLS_Russ,

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Post 111 by KTM666,

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Post 112 by jambox,

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Post 114 by TLS_Russ,

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Post 115 by TLS_Russ,

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Post 116 by Jermo,

#116
Standings so far:

MotoHooligan mk1: 1 point
DNA mk3: 0 points

Post 117 by TLS_Russ,

#117
I wonder if anyone else on here has ordered from DNA or cancelled after reading this:?:

Post 118 by KTM666,

#118
I have been assured that there are no 'Turbulence issues' with the top filter and that no ill effects will be seen by using a mk3 on a SD....

Post 119 by TLS_Russ,

#119
mm,mm,mmm...............

Post 120 by KTM666,

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Post 121 by Jermo,

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Post 122 by CEREC1,

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Post 123 by Dutch,

#123
I'd say DNA should refund or send the MK2 top to 666 since their 'performance box' only costs power.

Post 124 by KTM666,

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Post 125 by Dutch,

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Post 126 by TLS_Russ,

#126
Thanks for the support guys

Post 127 by PowerCell,

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Post 128 by TLS_Russ,

#128
Yep, totally agree,

DNA have made a complete hash of this problem and the launch of their product,

The first thing you do when you have a customer complaint is to put it right not make lame and basically incorrect excuses........

when I first saw their new product I was keen to try the MK2, now..... even if DNA resolve KTM666s problem, I am going with MH,

Two of my mates will follow on the basis of this thread

Post 129 by KTM666,

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Post 130 by Colonel_Klinck,

#130
Me thinks DNAs `tuned` SD test bike would make more power with a MH box

Post 131 by KTM666,

#131
Right I have just been on the phone to Dino MD of DNA (He called me) he talked me through my dyno run maps , there seems to be a dicrepencey, he thinks I might have corupted my KTM base map, I need to get the KTM akrapovic map re-installed (might have been when I tried un -succeessfully to switch off L1 fault light with tuneECU and it crashed)

He has assured me that the matter will be resolved even if it means flying over and setting it up himself on dyno I feel confident that he means what he says..

Next question can tuneECU be used to install Base Akrapovic map or do I need to go to KTM dealers?

Post 132 by CEREC1,

#132
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Post 133 by blb,

#133
Help

Anybody in the South West have TuneECU who could load it for me?

Post 134 by BASH69,

#134
BLB,

Can I be cheeky, do you have a dyno or just cable/software?

Post 135 by KTM666,

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Post 136 by Stupid Luke,

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Post 137 by blb,

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Post 138 by BASH69,

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Post 139 by KTM666,

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Post 140 by CEREC1,

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Post 141 by KTM666,

#141
Ta BLB. I just received my nice TuneECU cable in the post. I'll have a fettle myself but would prefer someone who has a dyno to tune custom styles.

Post 142 by KTM666,

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Post 143 by CEREC1,

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Post 144 by Stupid Luke,

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Post 145 by KTM666,

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Post 146 by KTM666,

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Post 147 by TLS_Russ,

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Post 148 by kevxtx,

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Post 149 by KTM666,

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Post 150 by KTM666,

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Post 151 by TLS_Russ,

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Post 152 by KTM666,

#152
sorry didn't quite get this last page or 2. are they saying you need the base KTM/akra map and a PC111? or can you just use tuneECU without PC?

Post 153 by TLS_Russ,

#153
I have PC111 fitted with custom map, but we think that base KTM ECU map has be corrupted

So I have to load KTM Akrapovic map into bikes ECU .....which can either be by KTM dealer or using TuneECU to access

Post 154 by KTM666,

#154
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Post 155 by blb,

#155
Yes...so they asked me to get KTM Akraprovic map fitted

Post 156 by Jermo,

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Post 157 by CEREC1,

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Post 158 by KTM666,

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Post 159 by blb,

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Post 160 by Lowrance,

#160
This is the most interest I have ever had in somebody else's bike. can't wait to see how it turns out. its like watching a great film and then finding its in well.... more than 2 parts... like lord of the rings I guess. should I start saving

Post 161 by Superdan,

#161
Hmm....

Post 162 by TLS_Russ,

#162
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Post 163 by samba,

#163
More popcorn

Post 164 by Jermo,

#164
Image

Post 165 by Lowrance,

#165
It's a thriller indeed, need more dyno

Post 166 by KTM666,

#166
I can tell you with pretty much 100% certainty that you did not accidentally corupt your basemap. No way to do that unless you were fooling around with Tune ECU and didn't know what you were doing. Playing with the PCIII on a dyno can in no way touch the base map (stock or Akra) in the ECU.

Good luck though.

Post 167 by Stratkat,

#167
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Post 168 by kevxtx,

#168
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Post 169 by Twisted Jester,

#169
I would reload your MH map back into the PCIII until you can get back on the dyno.

Post 170 by KTM666,

#170
If your base map was indeed corrupted then it's not really the tuners fault as he can only work with the base readings put out and attempt to adjust to them so it wouldn't really be a surprise to find the new map way different to the MH map if the baselines were different, it sounds like you're not giving him a fair shot, of course if you feel happier taking it somewhere else then fair enough but obviously different dynos and all that.

So I take it your PC crashed in the middle of downloading(uploading) the changed map to the ECU and you hadnt ridden it between then and fitting the dna?

Post 171 by kevxtx,

#171
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Post 172 by PowerCell,

#172
Ok some back to back testing on the same standard SD, same dyno, same day. Don't worry to much about the actual readings as every dyno reads differently, we are looking at the gains between all the runs. I will have the same tests done on my 2010 990 SMR very soon.

I have all the WinPeP run files if anyone wishes to see them first hand for compassion, & have the custom made PCIII fuel maps that go with each air box.

Just finished with all the tests and the results are good.

Following some info that will guide you through the runs:
Bike Super Duke 2006-2007 European specifications (Full power)
Akrapovic slip on open (no noise restrictors)
DNA stock replacement filter in the std. air box
Stock air box unmodified.
PC 3 USB with custom map
ECU flashed with official KTM/AKRAPOVIC MAP
Secondary butterflies standard and working (not removed or elliptical) just opening faster.
SAS connected but hose plugged with the DNA plug

All the dyno runs have notes indicating the specs. For example: *AKRA BASE ECU MAP+AKRA SLIP ON+DNA FILTER+ PC3 USB+CUSTOM PC3 MAP
Your winpep7 should be set to: correction factor SAE, smoothing 3, the units we use are Japanese (tools-environment options-default units-Japanese).
If you choose imperial units you will see a small difference in the values.
Our dyno reads approximately 2% higher than other Dynojet Dynos. We believe this due to the very good cooling/air circulation and design of the room, preparation of the bike and the thousands hours of work, make the dyno spin a bit more freely!
The absolute No. is not so important, what is important is the difference between the tests (runs) all are from the same bike, the same day, same operator, same conditions.
Compare the air/fuel ratio of the runs 017,029,033,036 all these runs are with a zero map in the PC3 so the differences (leaner) in air/fuel ratio are due to the increased air flow.

Run 004 (124,76 PS / 10,65 kg-m / 78.47 FT/LBS) is as received std air box custom map (perfect for the std airbox)
(tested with 5th gear, bike is strapped and preloaded properly, see gear ratio & air/fuel ratio)

Run 017 (128,46 PS / 10,94 kg-m / 80.44 FT/LBS) is with the MotoHooligan box and the PC3 map is ZERO
(tested with 5th gear, bike is strapped and preloaded properly, see gear ratio & air/fuel ratio)

Run 029 (130,15 PS / 11,10 kg-m 81.67 FT/LBS) is with the DNA S3 MK1 and the PC3 map is ZERO
(tested with 5th gear, bike is strapped and preloaded properly, see gear ratio & air/fuel ratio)

Run 033 (131,40 PS / 11,07 kg-m / 81.32 FT/LBS) s with the DNA S3 MK2 and the PC3 map is ZERO
(tested with 5th gear, bike is strapped and preloaded properly, see gear ratio & air/fuel ratio)

Run 036 (132,25 PS / 11,17 kg-m / 81.94 FT/LBS) s with the DNA S3 MK3 and the PC3 map is ZERO
(tested with 5th gear, bike is strapped and preloaded properly, see gear ratio & air/fuel ratio)

Run 046 (133,16 PS / 11,20 kg-m / 82.36 FT/LBS) is with the DNA S3 MK3 and the PC3 map is CUSTOM TUNED, it makes a small difference in power but the air/fuel ratio is perfect and on the road the bike is a dream
(tested with 5th gear, bike is strapped and preloaded properly, see gear ratio & air/fuel ratio)

Gentlemen this e-mail will be forwarded to several people that are interested or are asking for answers, so once more I have to say, that it is the 3rd time we have completed the above tests, this time we used a Super Duke with the same specs as Nick Super Duke in order to help Nick and put a end to all the mess that is going on the supperduke.net forum.
So Nick, I hope this e-mail, the attached dynoruns and photos, our cooperation and the attached custom maps, will help you setup your bike properly. Videos will be uploaded soon.
Please open the maps and read the notes.
First map is with the std box (SUPERDUKE CUSTOM MAP RACE DESIGN)
Second map is for very hot environment temp, as in Greece, but you can try it. (T2NE-20110722 1455 40)
Third map is for colder environment temp, as in UK (T2NE-20110722 1455 28)
And the ZERO map for reference.

Monday we will “advance map” (front and rear cylinder separate tuning) the SuperDuke and send this new map to all of you.

WinPep HP runs, Standard air box in BLUE, MH air box in RED, DNA MK3 in GREEN

Image

Torque runs, Standard air box in BLUE, MH air box in RED, DNA MK3 in GREEN

Image

HP
MH verse MK1, BLUE = MH, RED = MK1

Image

Torque
MH verse MK1, BLUE = MH, RED = MK1

Image

Post 173 by kevxtx,

#173
Okay--SO the DNA III is really about twice the gains as MH box--all things equal. Will you/can you run w/o secondaries to substantiate changes with that mod?

SMR dyno: Yes please! It's what i ride currently--having had 2 Dukes in the past. WIll you post the SMR results here or....?

Assuming you are a DNA dealer--and for all your research and trouble--do you ship to the USA?

Thanks!

Post 174 by kevxtx,

#174
Okaaay... so where's the 22hp?



.

Post 175 by Doon,

#175
I am back on the dyno in 3 hours time (Oz Time) with my SMR testing the gains from just removing the 2nd flies, I will have a before & after run to see the exact gains, the MK1, MK2 & MK3 will be tested with 2nd flies out if todays testing shows good results.

Post 176 by PowerCell,

#176
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Post 177 by Twisted Jester,

#177
Well im glad that is all sorted out, will be good to see the results of the SMR and SD with advanced maps

Post 178 by kevxtx,

#178
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Post 179 by TLS_Russ,

#179
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Post 180 by TLS_Russ,

#180
So the DNA tuned SD test bike with the full Akra system, headwork and cams makes less power than a std SD with slipons with the DNA Mk3,
Yes I know its a different dyno but that amount of tuning work should have gained 8-10bhp over a stocker which would show even on different dynos

Post 181 by TLS_Russ,

#181
Oh and how did you adjust the secondary butterflies to open faster?

Following some info that will guide you through the runs:
Bike Super Duke 2006-2007 European specifications (Full power)
Akrapovic slip on open (no noise restrictors)
DNA stock replacement filter in the std. air box
Stock air box unmodified.
PC 3 USB with custom map
ECU flashed with official KTM/AKRAPOVIC MAP
Secondary butterflies standard and working (not removed or elliptical) just opening faster.
SAS connected but hose plugged with the DNA plug

Post 182 by KTM666,

#182
All I know is that its the same model as mine (this was done specifically for that reason) Dino has sent me and Kev the run files so we can examine them on winpep7...this is what he promised me on day one

as you can see from his email they are producing custom map on Monday mapping each cylinder seperately, along with Video of the runs

Dino has asked to be allowed to join Forum and post information direct....I have asked (PM) two Mediators if this is possible ...I have not received an answer yet

Post 183 by kevxtx,

#183
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Post 184 by TLS_Russ,

#184
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Post 185 by kevxtx,

#185
][/quote]

So can we see the Dyno charts for DNA Mk2 vs DNA Mk3?[/quote]

HP = MKI, MK2, MK3
Image

Torque = MK1, MK2, MK3

Image

HP = MK2 verse MK3

Image

Torque = MK2 verse MK3

Image

Post 186 by TLS_Russ,

#186
Thanks

Post 187 by TLS_Russ,

#187
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Post 188 by kevxtx,

#188
OK I see what you are after, the Akro map was loaded so the flies open sooner to a greater degree apposed to the standard mapping at the same point.

I did think you were talking about the post of the removal dyno runs.

Post 189 by TLS_Russ,

#189
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Post 190 by Ducati Pete,

#190
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Post 192 by kevxtx,

#192
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Post 193 by TLS_Russ,

#193
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Post 194 by TLS_Russ,

#194
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Post 195 by kevxtx,

#195
All I am try to do is post the information of the back to back testing results for all the air boxes under the same conditions, I have no gain from displaying this information, it is to be used as a guide line to base a comparison. I have tried to show the exact gains from the run files, if you want any others let me know.

Post 196 by KTM666,

#196
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Post 197 by TLS_Russ,

#197
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Post 198 by KTM666,

#198
Right....onwards

Installed DNA mk3 map Dino sent me (still cannot believe how fast PC111 maps upload.....shut down the PC, switched of bike and powered up again....just to make sure )

........all the missing low end torque is back for sure very smooth and strong from as low down as 3100rpm up ...I have never ridden the SD at these revs before the DNA......not to sure I ever will again ......but it nearly doubles the rev range, Must change gearing back to 16 -38 (mental note no more changing up half way round corner on track days)

Dino did advise me that the Standard SD motor could not make full use of the SDR headers and I might lose a bit of midrange and not gain the top end that is created by the SDR head and aided Akrapovic headers...I thought I would 'suck it and see' before I change back (they look so nice )

..............not to sure if I would miss just a little bit......anyway you can hardly turn the throttle fast enough to make use of it ...Its so smooth now maybe next add should be quick action throttle ........when.....if bank account finally recovers


On Monday Dino is working on map that individually maps each cylinder which he will be sending to me...I cannot wait

Post 199 by KTM666,

#199
.....

Post 200 by jambox,

#200
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Post 201 by Dutch,

#201
Dino is very welcome to join the forum and contribute. All he has to do is sign up, and one of us will put his membership thru, depending on who's on duty. I'm on Mondays and Tuesdays, but one of the other mods (not sure who) is so keen that most members I try to activate have already been done.

Any probs, PM me again, and I'll create a login from scratch.

By the way - despite all the shenanigans, good on you for persisting, ...and I'm kinda impressed that DNA are being open and taking the flak. Whether it's as good value, or works as well as the MH, isn't the point really. It's just good to see another Superduke product on the market, and we'll make our own choices.

Post 202 by Crotchrockety,

#202
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Post 203 by KTM666,

#203
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Post 204 by KTM666,

#204
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Post 205 by KTM666,

#205
I have just thought (I had so much information come through from Dino..that it took me a while to fully take in relevent pieces of information)

Quite an inportant fact .......the base run with Standard filter and Akrapovic tail pipes was 124.85PS (thanks Jambox) this is using a very good custom map created by DNA (I have the run files so can see the same goes for the MH)........not just just the KTM Akraprovic map so what you are seeing is a true 'Level playing field'

WinPep HP runs, Standard air box in BLUE, MH air box in RED, DNA MK3 in GREEN

Image

Torque runs, Standard air box in BLUE, MH air box in RED, DNA MK3 in GREEN

Image

HP
MH verse MK1, BLUE = MH, RED = MK1

Image

Torque
MH verse MK1, BLUE = MH, RED = MK1

Image[/quote]

Post 206 by KTM666,

#206
the base run with std filer and akras was 124? I haven't got anything near that. thats with DNA filter in std airbox PC111 custom map.

do you know what yours is making now? have you/ when you going to dyno it?

Post 207 by KTM666,

#207
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Post 208 by jambox,

#208
my dyno gives 112.75 or something there abouts. I know what you mean about dynoing each stage. be great for the forum but not your pocket

so it looks like the 134 is well over estimated. and going to be 120. something?

Post 209 by Crotchrockety,

#209
when i bought my bike last winter i put it on the dyno to see that all was ok, i dont have the paper in front of me but it was 118,something hp with no mods.. all std.

Post 210 by Davey Sprocket,

#210
From what I understand (I am no expert by any means), your 112 could be down to a badly set up dyno, not securing the bike correctly, inexperienced operator, tyre pressure, temperature, humidity or the dyno not being calibrated correctly, your 112 could be 125 on another dyno

Going to a better set up dyno, with a more experienced operator may improve your final figure and your map and ultimately ….your quality of throttle response

I would honestly say from my experience 112.75 is low and 124 is high .... but the change you would feel would be proportional as shown by the charts by changing to MH or DNA

Dino gave me a some insight into how Dyno houses hide the facts and can make errors and what to look for ….in basic way …ten times better than I was before….but still basic stuff………which to me gave me confidence and a bit of knowledge to ask the right questions

Post 211 by KTM666,

#211
I think this all looks very promising.
I wonder what the total cost would be for getting one installed (I don't do home mechanics ) and doing a custom map.

Post 212 by KTM666,

#212
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Post 213 by kevxtx,

#213
Dino, aka, DNA has been activated. Welcome Dino!

Post 214 by KTM666,

#214
Sounds AWESOME!! but the the price is just insane....

Post 215 by kevxtx,

#215
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Post 216 by Stratkat,

#216
so the only way to compare one bike to the next BHP wise is to dyno both on the same day, same dyno same tester? the more i learn the more confused I am I need to learn more about dynos

Post 217 by Davey Sprocket,

#217
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Post 218 by KTM666,

#218
Just got my air boxes tonight from DNA with the MK1, MK2, MK3 lids so I can test them all to see which one is best suited to my 2010 SMR. All I got say is they are top quality products, well made & look better in real life. Thanks to Dino for sorting them out for me, I will be on the dyno soon.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
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Post 219 by DNA,

#219
Nice one Kev.....we all will have three times more things to argue about now

Post 220 by DNA,

#220
I am the sort of person that likes to share my results with facts, same bike same dyno same batch of fuel & a step by step with before & after dyno runs, no point in arguing if the results are proven.

Post 221 by lcjohnny,

#221
Ok the DNA filter is beautiful..... really good looking..

Now upset me!

How much??


Jon

Post 222 by DNA,

#222
Can I buy a taller filter for my MH box? that would do me.

Post 223 by DNA,

#223
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Post 224 by kevxtx,

#224
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Post 225 by kevxtx,

#225
Hi Dino,

Do you consider creating a stage 2 filter that just replaces the side cover of the standard airbox?
I had one of yours on my XT660X and it worked really well. I know the gains would be less than the airbox, but it's easier for people who don't want to (or are able to) make drastic changes to their bikes.

Post 226 by Bermo KTM,

#226
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Post 227 by Colonel_Klinck,

#227
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Post 228 by Bermo KTM,

#228
ok , since fitting my MH box i've started to get a whistling noise at low revs , 1, does ANYONE know what this is , and 2 do you get the same with the DNA box , some people seem to like it, i hate it , if it was consistent ok but it's intermittant and that is very puzzling !!

Post 229 by KTM666,

#229
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Post 230 by Colonel_Klinck,

#230
cheers mate , you are the only one who seemed to know , is that the only way to get rid of it or will fitting MH butterflies cure it ??

Post 231 by Dutch,

#231
....all I can say is I fitted MH flies at the Same time as MH box and mine did not whistle......

Post 232 by DNA,

#232
Yeah fitting the MH flys will get rid of it. I only removed mine completely to gain the extra grunt. She did need a remap on the dyno though but I also fitted the full titanium akra system at the same time.

Post 233 by DNA,

#233
I quite like my MH whistles.... Must remove those flies soon tho.

Post 234 by Bert,

#234
what can the DNA box do over the MH box.

Post 235 by KTM666,

#235
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Post 236 by DNA,

#236
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Post 237 by Bermo KTM,

#237
For USA orders--just proceed on your website, I assume. How can I calculate USA currency/shipping costs?

Thanks.

Post 238 by Stupid Luke,

#238
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Post 239 by Doon,

#239
Right Fitted Dino's Advanced map (this has been mapped a cylinder at a time.... this takes a serious amount of Dyno time).........I'm gutted.... it does not work with my bike (this was always going to be ...how close was my bike to the test bike that it was created on...but more so this is like a fitted suit rather tahn an off the peg size 42)

Again thanks Dino... but I cannot use it ...Reverted back to 28 map for below 28c...works a treat looks like this is the map I will get Dyno'd

Post 240 by kevxtx,

#240
Yes Nick, I know it is difficult to share and use an advanced map successfully, but it was worth a try.
Remember I told you to be very cautious with the advanced map.
Cheers,
Dino

Post 241 by KTM666,

#241
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Post 242 by KTM666,

#242
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Post 243 by DNA,

#243
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Post 244 by MrZ32,

#244
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Post 245 by jambox,

#245
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Post 246 by tripoddave,

#246
Dino
Can you send me your advanced custom map please?
I would like to compare it to the map I have to see where we are loosing out.
We are making 119 at the rear wheel on the Projex dyno which reads about 6% down on a Dynoject dyno so about 126bhp.
The SD is fitted with a full Akra evo system and a PCIII and has a custom Tune ECU map. Secondary butterflies are removed and disabled as are the Lambda sensors but the butterfly arms are still in place.
Compression is 185 (front) and 200 (rear).
An SDR with end cans and a MotoHooligan box made 129 on this dyno earlier in the week.
Regards
Dave

Post 247 by CEREC1,

#247
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Post 248 by Dutch,

#248
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Post 249 by tripoddave,

#249
Dino
Don't think my PM is working properly so I'll post on here as well:
The ECU maps and the Power commander maps were all done manually.
I can ask Kev to send you the maps but he won't be able to do it until later.
We are about to take the SD off the dyno so and I'll be picking it up tomorrow morning so it will probably have to run at Cadwell on August 8th and 9th, Rockingham on the 13th and Silverstone on the 29th August before we can do anything.
Kev is not a member on here so he will have to send them via email I guess.
What is your email address?
Regards
Dave

Post 250 by DNA,

#250
Hi Dutch,
Tuneecu has access to all the data and parameters in the ECU it is extremely powerful and at the same time extremely dangerous. Uploading and downloading all the ECU data each time a change is made is risky and takes time, not to mention that it must NOT interrupt it during the data transfer.
At the same time the Powercommander is handling only the fueling data and some parameters that can’t harm the engine. It can be adjusted real time with the engine working and the MOST IMPORTANT of all, it can be connected to the Dynojet dyno through a program that is called Tuning Link in order to automatically tune the fueling.
More specific the PC3 or PCV is connected to the Dynojet dyno via USB & Tuning Link. Tuning link is at the same time connected to the air/fuel ratio monitoring system of the dyno, checking the AFR in real time (with a Zero to 1 or 2 seconds delay) and it also takes control of the eddy current brake (load control) of the dyno. All the above work as a closed loop and the dyno operator can accurately define the AFR targets, in low, mid & hi rpm, choose the acceleration rate from low rpm to redline regardless the gear, and at the same time record AFR accurately throughout the range. All the procedure and the routines the operator has to follow are computer controlled, at the and of each run or pass, the optimum data are entered in the correct column of the map automatically!
The above is a brief presentation; the procedure is extremely effective, accurate and fast.
This is why almost everyone prefers Powercommander tuning instead of flashing the ECU.
The only drawback is that you need VERY good cooling and a VERY hard rear tyre and a GOOD tuneecu base map, don’t forget tuneecu controls the ignition timing .

Hope this answers your question.

Cheers,

Dino Nikolaidis

DNA Filters, Greece

Post 251 by DNA,

#251
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Post 252 by Dutch,

#252
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Post 253 by DribbleDuke,

#253
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Post 254 by PowerCell,

#254
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Post 255 by KTM666,

#255
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Post 256 by KTM666,

#256
Answer to all is Yes (See dyno print out at the top of this page) ...read the tread

Post 257 by CEREC1,

#257
I know its another day, another dyno etc but I am still waiting to see what 666 gets from his at the end of the day. I don't think I have seen a std SD produce anywhere near 120 with the std airbox and akra cans.

Post 258 by DNA,

#258
I will be putting on dyno soon (I need to let the bank balance recover first)....the figures do not mean anything really......its the difference measured on the same bike on the same day on the same dyno........thats what Dino gave us with his tests....Kev will be doing the same very shortly (on a SMR).......and with Shaft and Flies removed

Post 259 by PowerCell,

#259
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Post 260 by DNA,

#260
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Post 261 by DNA,

#261
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Post 262 by PowerCell,

#262
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Post 263 by DribbleDuke,

#263
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Post 264 by Crotchrockety,

#264
Gentlemen. Please play nice. Thanks.

Image

Post 265 by Colonel_Klinck,

#265
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Post 266 by MrZ32,

#266
TuneECU is far superior to the power commander in every way except usability... However is clever enough to be able grab pc3 maps and directly writing it to the ecu.. No more piggy back crap. And its free.

What powercell said about lazy tuners is completely TRUE (unless done for contractual reasons).. It is just that they can't be added to use the less user friendly program.

It is like writing something complex in java script and expecting it to work as well as hard coding

Post 267 by tripoddave,

#267
I would like to add my twopenny worth on the subject of Power Commander v Tune ECU as opinions seem to be so polarised:

I have TuneECU modded SD and run a PCIII.
The guy that does my dyno setup, Kev Ashton @ Projex -UK, can and does do custom maps using Tune ECU but the effect is the same but quicker and easier using the Power Commander for fueling. Its less important for those of us who use Kev (and there are quite a few here) that it takes so much more time using TuneECU than the PC system because Kev charges stupidly low rates but given the charges of most tuning houses I would seriously doubt if TuneECU actually works out cheaper in the long run.

So for me TuneECU is a bit like Heineken : refreshes the parts other beers (PC) cannot reach but for speed and ease of use when setting fueling a PC is still the weapon of choice.

If, however, I had to choose only one solution I would have to choose the TuneECU solution because it allows us to mod important things that the PC cannot touch: advance/retard, butterfly motors, rev limiter, etc

While I'm on my soapbox: One point on the DNA cost issue: Dino probably feels his product isn't overpriced. His country is currently getting screwed by the Euro and everything Greece exports right now is at about 3 times what it should cost if Greece was still using their own currency and could devalue instead of getting screwed by the eurozone.

Post 268 by tripoddave,

#268
Note: Projex dyno reads about 6% below a dynojet dyno.
e.g. 120bhp on here is the equivalent of 127bhp
All figures shown as rear wheel horsepower.

Dyno runs from yesterday and some other traces for comparison.
Little bit of history first for those I haven't bored stupid on the subject:
This is the first SD into the UK and was KTM's press bike then the prototype for the Superduke Battle.
Top end rebuild Christmas 2009.
Fitted this year: Akrapovic Evo system and YoyoDyne slipper clutch. Airbox removed completely when AkraEvo system went on.
Fitted high lift cams which wasn't a success and then went back to standard cams.
Decided to fit a DNA airbox because i crashed the SD a couple of weeks ago and it almost ingested gravel.
Hoped to get the same power with the DNA airbox as with no airbox.

This is the trace of my bike with the DNA stage 3 airbox fitted
Image

This is the trace of my bike with the DNA stage 3 airbox fitted against a Superduke R with a TuneECU map
Image

This is the trace of my bike with the DNA stage 3 airbox fitted against my SD with the 'hot' cams and no airbox
Image

This is the trace of my bike with the DNA stage 3 airbox fitted against Guy's SD-R with a motohooligan airbox
Image

This is the trace of my bike with the DNA stage 3 airbox fitted against Nigels SD with a MotoHooligan airbox
Image

This is the trace of my bike with the DNA stage 3 airbox fitted against my SD with no airbox.
Image

Clearly there is some way to go before its as good as an SDR with a MH airbox.
My plan is to gas flow and skim the heads, fit high compression pistons and possibly fit SDR inlet valves which are 1mm bigger and fit SDR injectors this winter.

Post 269 by KTM666,

#269
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Post 270 by tripoddave,

#270
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Post 271 by tripoddave,

#271
there is no debate on the usage of the Powercommander, if you are dependent on Dyno Runs with Tunelink you need one. If you really use it later on the road is a different story.

The main problem i have and several others in Europe with the Motohooligan & DNA is that you can simply not use it because of the noise. If i want to go to a racetrack with this kind of airbox they kick me out immediatly. Of course the claim of +22 is total bullshit and it is a plain clone. We have now three persons / companies selling more or less the same thing.

I personally think DNA should have looked better into this forum or others to find out more clever designs which actually work and do not produce the amount of noice. But innovation might be a
problem a lot of Greece companies are currently lacking

For example take a basic design of the RC8 airbox and adopt it to the Superduke of course with some changes using the fuel tank as cover to maximise volume and space over the velocity stacks.
Including the usage of the ramair channels between the frame. This would have been innovative, nobody is selling a complete airbox currently.

Once the issue with the air is sorted you widen the throttle bodies by around 2mm and you will have the power you are looking for, more or less street legal.

This is where i will move to over the winter time ....

Post 272 by KTM666,

#272
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Post 273 by KTM666,

#273
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Post 274 by Colonel_Klinck,

#274
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Post 275 by DNA,

#275
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Post 276 by tripoddave,

#276
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Post 277 by shadowman,

#277
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Post 278 by KTM666,

#278
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Post 279 by DNA,

#279
98dB is mostly the limit, if they measure at the straight where you go full throttle you are way above. Last year i even had problems on the Sachsenring in Germany with passing that limit
with my Akras which are street legal. Luckily it was a KTM TNT event so after a lot of talking they let me drive.

Post 280 by DNA,

#280
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Post 281 by tripoddave,

#281
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Post 282 by harvester,

#282
Hi Dinos,

A wise man once told me that arguing on an internet forum was like shouting at the TV. Utterly pointless.

From what I have read you have been more than generous with your time and experties. You have a good product out there in the market and people can take or leave it as they like. If I had more of a clue what to do with it I would certainly pester you for a map and if I were less broke I would probably buy a filter to go in the airbox as well.

Try not to be offended by strident opinions on here, people are fond of the MH guy and strong comment is the norm.

Good lck and thanks for making SD products. I hope you get a return from all your efforts.[/quote]

Thank you Shadowman, wise words.
Cheers,
Dino

Post 283 by kevxtx,

#283
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Post 284 by PowerCell,

#284
A few of you guys can bag DNA product as much as you want that is your right if you feel that way, in all my years of running motorcycle forums or being on different forums have I seen a product persecuted like the DNA product on this forum, normally performance parts are Jude on their merits & agree the pros & cons must be discussed & brought forward, but some of you have made this very personal against Dino & DNA, I fear for the next person that comes up with the next performance modification on this forum.

I am open to any performance product that can improve my 990, at lease there is another alliterative replacement for the air box out their & new version on it's way with the stage 2, if you don't want one then don't buy one we all have a choice in life..

All I am trying to say is cant we just discuss the pros & cons to these air boxes & leave the personal stuff out.

Post 285 by KTM666,

#285
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Post 286 by tripoddave,

#286
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Post 287 by Viking,

#287
+1.

I bought the MK3. It is a lot of money but my SD on its initial runs is making the same power as a K&N filtered SDR with an EVO system and the same power as mine was before with no airbox at all.
I'm happy with mine AND the after sales service Dino offers, sending us maps etc.

I appreciate some of our cousins have a personal relationship with the MH guy and I know many people are chuffed to bits with his products which is excellent too. So lets keep it friendly.

Post 288 by Lowrance,

#288
way I see it the more people putting work into producing parts for the SD the better. you just end up with a better market. as far as gains go, that is down to those who put out the data, it should be correct or very near the mark. price is down to the maker and the person wishing to buy it. if DNA sell there filter at £350 or £550 or even £750 at that matter does not mean shit. if someone wants to buy it at that price then fine, its up to them. the quality is 100% and you will always pay for high standards. if DNA promised high standards and sent poor you would have a good argument. if its to much money don't buy it. you don't have to have it anyway. the filter fitted to the bike works fine. I can't see the point moaning about the price thats not an issue. saying something will improve BHP and it didn't is an issue. I agree its a little over estimated but then I didn't know dynos worked as they do. my thinking was 125 on one dyno would be the same on another. now I know different, leaves me a bit puzzled about it all cos I don't understand it enough. it has become a bit picky now. boring. the power output is what matters. Nice one DNA for produceing the filter. if I can come up with the cash I will buy one. but its unlikely at the mo cos cash flow isn't going well. not for bike parts anyway

Post 289 by Colonel_Klinck,

#289
So whens the new lid for the motohooligan box gunna be available

Post 290 by Ducati Pete,

#290
I can't believe this threads made it to 14pages, all for a few extra bhp.

I would say all this money and time would be far better spent on suspension, rider training, or trackdays. Damn sure those will make anyone faster than an extra 5bhp.

Each to their own though. Just don't understand guys obsession with an extra few bhp. Lol. Even dieting down to sub 10% bodyfat would prob give more performance gain lol.

Post 291 by 2bigalow,

#291
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Post 292 by KTM666,

#292
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Post 293 by CEREC1,

#293
Klinck - should those new maps be put in your thread ?

Post 294 by CEREC1,

#294
I would generally agree with that statement, but going from the stock airbox to a MH (or DNA) is a huge improvement in throttle response and rideabililty. Well worth the money IMO. I would go as far as to say installing the MH in my SuperDuke was one of the biggest "wow" factor upgrades I have ever done to any street bike or race bike in respect to rideability.
Then there is the fun factor / cool factor / I need that factor, of upgrading your bike with the latest and greatest even though most don't need it.

Maybe there is a conspiracy within the Dyno Tuners Union, DTU for short, to continually make new parts which require Dyno tuning each time. $$$
Hmmm...

Edit - Again, I have stole a prior post. Sorry Klink. I was responding to Vikings post, when you snuck in there.

Post 295 by KTM666,

#295
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Post 296 by Colonel_Klinck,

#296
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Post 297 by Colonel_Klinck,

#297
And don't noisy bikes always sound faster? Makes you deaf along with other male past times!

Post 298 by Jermo,

#298
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Post 299 by KTM666,

#299
In the Motohooligan thread there is a dyno of a guy in the US. He had cans and Akra map I think, did a pull on the dyno, saw Aaron and installed MB then went back to dyno and had nice fat increases in torque and HP. This guy can ride too. There is a great vid of him racing some half dirt, half tarmac race and kicking ass. He was chuffed to bits with the results. dirt4breakfast I think was his nickname.

Yeah a better rider on an inferior bike will be faster. But on an inferior bike you/I would be even slower still.

This is him i think. Sure there was a better quality one though.

Post 300 by DNA,

#300
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Post 301 by Jermo,

#301
Is there any situation/setup the Mk1 or Mk2 is a better choice then the Mk3 if the extra costs wouldn't be an issue?

Post 302 by nampus,

#302
Sorted the handling, increased rear sag

I installed 'R' Shock with the same sag as my standard shock.... this worked fine (read very edgy) until I changed from MH to DNA which made it slap for England ...now back to sweet handling self

Managed to put some decent dry miles on with 28c map, very impressed, let the mrs ride it ...no where near as loud following as when you are riding, she thought it pulled a lot harder and was smoother (.....and a hell of a lot louder riding it than following it )

Booked custom map for 15th of August this was as soon as they could fit me in (getting each cylinder mapped individually)

Post 303 by Bermo KTM,

#303
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Post 304 by DNA,

#304
I don't have the SDR yet but I plan to buy the mk3 when I have the bike, maybe fit costum made cans, pull the secondaries and map it with tuneECU myself. From the graphs, the mk3 simply looks like the best box on the market, that's why I asked.

Post 305 by DNA,

#305
Hi Guys,
I have promised to Nick KTM666 to upload videos of the back to back testing of all the SD airboxes.
Finally I managed to upload them to youtube and bellow you can find the links:

SuperDuke


Adventure 990


More SD videos and Adventure 990 videos:

http://www.youtube.com/user/DNAFILTERS

I hope you will enjoy the videos, if you have any questions I will be more than happy to answer.

Cheers,

Dino Nikolaidis
DNA Filters, Greece

Post 306 by jambox,

#306
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Post 307 by TLS_Russ,

#307
No interest in this thread anymore......

All Dino is doing on here is getting some free advertising direct to his potential customers, just goes to prove how slippery DNA are

When are DNA going to man up and pay for Nicks bike to be set up

Thats what we all want to see happen and those are the results I will believe

For me game over until that happens

Post 308 by Bermo KTM,

#308
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Post 309 by CEREC1,

#309
ok ,mr DNA the reason i asked is because a BMC performance air filter for my car , 911 turbo , is 50 euros cheaper than your filter for my ktm ,i mean come on !! as for your design quote , the design was already there all you did was copy it and produce a copy with your materials , tell me im wrong here
it still doesnt add up to me , and the last quote of your answer . oh please oh please do not patronise us !!!!

Post 310 by Crotchrockety,

#310
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Post 311 by kevxtx,

#311
We are a touchy lot aren't we?
PCT (pre-Crashfest tension)

Post 312 by MrZ32,

#312
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Post 313 by kevxtx,

#313
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Post 314 by MrZ32,

#314
rather than getting annoyed at Dino for the price, just do what every consumer is entitled to do, dont buy it, its that simple... you cant get angry at someone for charging a certain amount of money for an item... everything comes at a cost... and im sure DNA's overheads are larger than Aarons... hence it costs more for them to make it.

when i finally get my airbox with variable length intakes off the ground im sure people will slag that too, just like the DVS setup (sorry about that one... dont have the bike at the moment... will be lucky to get it back before christmas... F@cking stupid KTM australia!!!! Now that is a group that people should be angry with... poor dealer support.

I can get parts from the states within a week at a third of the cost than from australia which will take 2 months!! We are not able to freely use any other countries KTM because of this.... that is bad

Post 315 by Bermo KTM,

#315
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Post 316 by kevxtx,

#316
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Post 317 by TLS_Russ,

#317
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Post 318 by ktmjunkie,

#318
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Post 319 by kevxtx,

#319
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Post 320 by jambox,

#320
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Post 321 by KTM666,

#321
I though I had seen this set up before.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10354&start=25

Be prepair to be abused, as some of the forum members don't like new mods.

Post 322 by PowerCell,

#322
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Post 323 by KTM666,

#323
.............And it has even less room above the throttle bodies

Post 324 by kevxtx,

#324
not to mention a bling score of 0. its ugly.

Post 325 by Colonel_Klinck,

#325
So.... I'm still watching this thread and waiting to see what the final preformance claims are. Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Post 326 by drkwng,

#326
Bike was booked for Monday 15th ....The dyno man had to go to hospital...rebooked for this Friday morning

Post 327 by TLS_Russ,

#327
I am Sure KTM666 will post up his final results good or bad

The only criticism I can see in this thread is of DNA themselves which is deserved due to the way they chose to advertise/ launch their product,
We all know the only way to show a performance increase for a product is with back to back testing of a stock bike followed with the performance product fiited, not multiple mods at the same time
this is a very basic rule or performance tuning, one step at a time those that break the rules will of course be criticized by those who know better

Post 328 by KTM666,

#328
I will post Friday evening ...good or bad it will be interesting

I am changing gearing at the weekend from 16- 40 to 16-37 as I am feed up of trying to change into Seventh gear

Roll on Friday

Post 329 by KTM666,

#329
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Post 330 by PowerCell,

#330
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Post 331 by KTM666,

#331
The silence in here is deafening... so what's the final word on this product 666?


.

Post 332 by KTM666,

#332
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Post 333 by KTM666,

#333
Booking in to Cresent to have a full map done ..hopefully in the next week

Post 334 by jambox,

#334
Well here we are finally got it mapped at Cresent (Trevor) and what a good job he did, the Graph below is with DNA mk3 Filter, Standard down pipes, Akrapovic tail pipes, Secondary's removed

Image

And this one is with my Motorhooligan Box Standard down pipes, Akrapovic tail pipes, Secondary's removed (sorry I cannot overlay they did not give me the runfiles..........)


Image

Post 335 by KTM666,

#335
I have found a better run

DNA mk3 Filter, Standard down pipes, Akrapovic tail pipes, Secondary's removed

126.52hp
78.87ftlb

Image

Motorhooligan Filter, Standard down pipes, Akrapovic tail pipes, Secondary's removed

Best Run

122.33hp
75.37ftlb

Post 336 by PowerCell,

#336
Now then, is that down to the extra filter or the extra height? Plus do can you feel the extra ponies via the seat dyno?

Bet you're glad that this tune worked better than your last.

Post 337 by KTM666,

#337
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Post 338 by DribbleDuke,

#338
So this comparison is on different dynos on different days?


.

Post 339 by PowerCell,

#339
....gee your quick

Post 340 by DribbleDuke,

#340
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Post 341 by PowerCell,

#341
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Post 342 by DribbleDuke,

#342
Point taken. Still, your results may varie. I believe as part of the dyno run the tuning was done too. this would require that a seperate tune was brought out of both systems and this would have been far more costly and it stands to reason that the end result was to supply him with the best DNA tuned system that he could get. With the Motohooligan run falling under the same position we can only assume that the result left a satisfied customer and that is all that matters through KTM666's perspective.

Post 343 by DribbleDuke,

#343
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Post 344 by PowerCell,

#344
Would you be happy with a seat of the pants comparison? He knows his bike, he knows that he does'nt mind throwing loads of cash to get a maked improvement in performance. If he calls it a marked improvement will you concede anything?

Post 345 by PowerCell,

#345
Oh and as a side note while I have your attention. I lost my ass on US highland. No money left for filtration devices here.

Post 346 by KTM666,

#346
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Post 347 by PowerCell,

#347
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Post 348 by KTM666,

#348
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Post 349 by DribbleDuke,

#349
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Post 350 by KTM666,

#350
Though I would like to see an exactly direct comp too, I say *2 ktm666 questions. If you've got an agenda, spell it out. rarrr.

For me, I bought a MH airbox, have all gubbins removed and cut my shrouds for more direct air. I would simply buy a taller filter for my MH box if it was available.

Post 351 by 990 WFO,

#351
I would have liked to do a Direct comparison.....but I had to sell the Motorhooligan Box to fund the DNA....I made several wrong turns....(ok a lot)

I had a motorhooligan box box and sold it to buy a DNA.....do I regret it...NO

Did it make finacial sense to sell a MH and buy a DNA...Hell NO

Is the DNA better ...YES

Would I advise someone who had a MH box to do as I did ...No (......but i'm glad I did)

Would I buy a DNA rather than a MH ...Hell YES

Either makes a SD /SM/SMT/SE/Adventurer ..come alive...but given the choice me personally ..I would choose DNA mk3 as it does make significantly more difference

Post 352 by KTM666,

#352
Oh well. I'm still happy with my Motobox. Most dyno tests are never 100% indisputable anyway. If the DNA is indeed superior to the Motobox, then I'm sure Aaron will bounce back with a stage 2 kit. The price that DNA wants for their box raises my eyebrows though. Usually it's cheaper to reverse-engineer something.

Dyno numbers aside I have no doubt though that some members will be switching, if nothing but for the anodised orange

Post 353 by KTM666,

#353
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Post 354 by PowerCell,

#354
.

Post 355 by KTM666,

#355
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Post 356 by PowerCell,

#356
Right thats one question....just leaves the other two

Power cell what bike do you ride? .....SE with MH Box

Do you have any affiliation OR buisnesness interests with other suppliers ?

Do you work within the industry ?

Post 357 by MrZ32,

#357
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Post 358 by jambox,

#358
Powercell--Do you have a MH currently? As i'll likely have one for sale.

Thanks 666 for trying. There's enough there, that I'll be buying DNA.

Post 359 by SDNerd,

#359
Powercell is correct, for any sort of testing it needs to be back to back. When the testing for my DVS' happens it will be back to back with about 15mins difference.

Unfortunately, even if its the same dyno depending on the day it can be out as much as 5hp due to different barometric pressures, humidity and temperature.

That being said I appreciate what you have done and it gives an idea about what you would expect to achieve. The Price of this has nothing to do with it, if it can produce more hp, it is better however it is a cost benefit thing.

You are correct, the bigger the volume in the box the better the throttle response will be... and definitely think that MH airbox could cope with a taller filter.

Post 360 by jambox,

#360
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Post 361 by MrZ32,

#361
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Post 362 by MrZ32,

#362
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Post 363 by Lowrance,

#363
Ran a back to back dyno a little while ago with a MH and DNA MK3.First we ran the MH.We had previously tuned a custom advanced map for the MH.30 min changeover to DNA and we spent the next 4 hours tuning an advance PCIII map.This is on the latest 250i dyno.We had specially made senses to fit in both lamba connections to get the best readings possible.The result was almost an identical graph on both airboxes.I left the DNA on because I am not to impressed with K&N filtering fine particles.Anyway make of it what you will.They are both great airboxes.The DNA imho has a better filter and has 4 bolts holding it down plus it's a thing of beauty.MH has only one bolt in the middle[well my one does]which has always concerned me but is also very well made and looks good.Which ever way any goes you will be happy.Cheers

Post 364 by Stratkat,

#364
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