Intake mod and feasability study (dual velocity stacks)

I'd be interested....particularly on a bit more mid range power and would accept a small loss at the bottom (there is plenty of torque at the low end, imho).

I don't care about materials.


Sub $100 would be the sweet spot for me.

-Chris

I would accept a top end loss for a noticable increase down low and in the midrange. Would definitely NOT accept any loss at the bottom/mid.

Im rarely revving that high anyway, and I don't track my bike. A felt gain in power at the 3000-7000 range would be awesome.

As for price... hard to say, would have to see the final product. If its "just a couple of pipes" then you can only charge so much before someone rips off your product and puts something cheaper on the market.

I'd buy them if proved effective, would trade better mid for top.

I am not smart on physics but dont see how there's much room for changing the height of the stack, there must only be an inch max above the current oem stacks - in the MH or oem airbox?

can't go much higher before flow gets too compressed/turbulent against the roof of the box and prob. shouldn't be shorter?

ok first prototypes to be finished in the new 2 weeks (was waiting on ktm australia for parts (2 bloody months to get a simple part... useless).

pics will then follow... watch this space guys.

need a local for testing in a motobox (got the stock and grim boxes covered)

Looking forwards to seeing the results of your R&D hard work.

I guess I should step in? (09 SDR, motobox, akras, PC3)
although Ive got the SDR, not the standard SD...
Might mess up the dyno figures if the others are standard too?

when you drop by my way... i will see what i can do with tune ecu about throttle snatch... deel?

by the way mate... long time no see or hear

wil they born in the next three months? (i must dyno remap befor April, so...)

why hold back, drop in the air boxes, they are very easy to remove the top off once in place... And just throw a tuneECU map in that is already available for the mean time.

Im guessing that they will be in full production within a month or two (no more missus as of last night so i have a fair bit more spare cash now).

Sounds good mr Z, I look forward to seeing the results.

Would that be a 10%-15% midrange gain on top of what you gain with the motobox ?

bloody fabricators... taking forever to get it done.

ok he has been taking it easy because he is doing it at mates rates but all i want is for the tooling to be sorted... story of my life at the moment.

Too many fabricators of mine are falling behind...

ok rant over... another week and they might be ready.

Then to prove it all on the dyno.... dont worry guys i havent stalled on this. It is still happening... and will be a mod ftw!

im interested, in mid to top end, i dont spend much time in the bottom end of the rev range.

Count me in for a set.

Count me in for a set im still holding back in fitting my moto filter

....and a question... will they work the best with the OE second butterflies, without them or with the MH ones?

ok guys, they are coming along a lil slower than was expecting, gave them a progress claim of 400 bucks. Am going to get them to try copper as it has greater ductility (as the radius is requiring it to be made in two parts for both stainless and mild steel)

I have got a jig machined up so that is good... another propper week for the first prototype to rune on the dyno!!! finally.

Here are some pics taken today (bear in mind this is the ugly prototype). The locating fins have not been welded in yet but do work on another prototype.





obviously it is going to sit much lower insede the stock stack but it gives you an idea of size




and a picture of the failures in methods and grades of material used

How are these going to work with Motobox m8?

they are not going to sit that proud of the standard stack when they are finished... That was just titting on a bench top... the set up will fit within the confines of the standard box... remember part of the DVS will sit below the level of the standard velocity stack...

just under 2cm proud of the top of the standard stack and 2cm proud of the bottom of the stack... missing the axle for the secondary flies (yes you will remove the flies... or lose some of the ability and make it flush with the standard stack.

The clearances aloow for enough air to be sucked through the top too.

copper? that should negate the weight savings of your carbon fibre nicely then.................

If the dyno figures add up it looks like I'm going to be ordering some performance bling and finding a tuner that is happy to use Tune ECU.

you are probably looking at well and truly less than 100g all up (we are talking thin copper tube)... as opposed to the performance gains... plus anyone worth 2 cents has removed their sas... more weight there. and on that note... your PC3 should be adding weight too

plus once i have proven evidence of the DVS' working on a dyno, i am considering going to a plastic injection moulder and telling them to make a copy of the prototype... that way i can pump heaps out

i don't have a PC III !?
yep the SAS has to go, and it's all moot anyway, they're just road bikes, if you want to talk weight how fukken heavy is the std muffler set? crikey! i nearly ruptured my blurter valve when i first lifted mine!
if you make an injection molded plastic version will you make them as a set of outers and inners? or would you still need the original stacks?

paul.
p.s, what's the measurement from the top of the velocity stack to the top of the filter element?

Hey mate,

I have a 2005 SD with motobox fitted and live in Brisbane if you need a non R model for testing, who's dyno were you planning on testing on?

Cheers Cameron

will let you know how when they are ready, in theory they should would exactly the same, so adding fuelling in the correct areas is not a drama (the 06 and 08 models have very similar fuel curves), it is just the ignition timing that vastly changes... (which is the only part that seems like it could not be carried accross.

Loony, i am unsure what you are trying to ask for... but my airbox has a 12mm clearance from the top of the DVS to the roof of the airbox which is all that is required (can cope with 6-8 mm to roof of air box before it will become detrimental). I will have to get somone with a motobox to drop by at some stage

12mm isn't much, how did you come to the conclusion that was enough clearance from the lid? do you know the maximum demand in cfm at redline? the smaller internal volume of the motobox makes a very efficient filter compulsory i would think but it seems to me by installing taller stacks you may be restricting air flow by reducing the volume of still air above the stacks opening. Longer stacks usually offer more torque as do wide bellmouths, it will be interesting to see what this mod does to the torque curve back to back.

paul

Any updates yet? i'm very curious..

well, im day s away from getting the first prototype pair.

Unfortunately, they are hard to make... bending steel to that level doesnt like to work, so it needs to be done in 6 pieces not 3.

So that process will go out the window, BUT if this works, I am looking into different methods of making them.

i could possibly get them made in billet for LOTS, cast (no idea how much) or injection moulded plastic for this i have no idea how much. Apparently getting the plastic moulds made are the expensive part.

when I post up the results on the dyno, i will let everyone decide on whether they would buy the modification... if enough of you do, injection moulding would be a possibility

If you can draw in CAD sw, than you can find a company with 3D printer and they can print this parts out of plastic. So you can test it and maybe make them with the same procedure. Depends of the cost of printing.

Just an idea...

Would billet ones be uber expensive Aaron?

Simple answer yes... 60*60*92Mm *2 blocks of aluminium with lots of wastage.

Thought of 3d printer, only concern is that it is the plastic has a low melting temp and am not sure how fuel/oil stable the plastic is.

Aaron what sort of cost would it be to machine that stuff? As cnc work in Australia is very expensive... Well not very but I couldn't make them for 100 per pair

have you tried a set of these out on a dyno yet

Mr.Z32

In my profession I do a lot of design concepts through to production mouldings. The cost of injection moulding tool for something like this all depends on the volumes you want to make. Multiple cavity tooling brings the unit price down but costs a lot more in the first place. Probably the volumes for this item would never justify more than a single cavity tool and the cost of this would depend on whether the component could be moulded with a simple cor/cavity tool or need side cores and moving parts.

Anyway, the way to go would certainly be to make a pilot tool made from aluminium rather than tool steel. This is a fraction of the cost and is always done to test a design before committing to bulk tooling. I have a lot of contacts in the UK for doing this - especially for low runs. I could easily get a quote for producing a quick prototype tool which is not designed for high speed manufacture - more to hand assemble and produce limited numbers to test. You can get several thousand units of these tools before they wear out. I'd need a drawing or CAD data to get an accurate assessment of the comlpexity of tool required. Do you have the component built in Pro-E or some other 3D package? IGES or STEP files would be fine.

Other thing is the material you want it moulded in - this makes a difference to the tool design and allowance for shrinkage etc. Otherwise the tolerances will be out. I imagine ABS or Nylon or something but the toolmaker/moulder would want to know the temperature etc. that the unit has to operate in. The company I know does loads of prototypes for auto manufacturers - even turbo fans and so they really know their stuff.

My opinion of rapid prototyping techniques for this is that I would not offer my bike for testing with a velocity stack made from SLA or SLS or the other mentioned printing techniques. The materials are not strong enough and all I can imagine is them collapsing on the dyno and being consumed into the engine!! You'd get some interesting readings on the printout at this point. You could maybe use the SLA to make a female mould and cast prototypes in a stronger material but I'd recommend the pilot tool option.

Let me know if you want any further advice or help.

thanks for the help bic,

i will get the dyno testing done first obviously but yes I will send the '.sldprt' (i use solid works) if it works... i could also convert it to a .dxf

yeah, i had my concerns using any of the rapid prototyping plastics too (to the point where i was not going to make it that way).

hence why i had it made out of steel... strong and hardy. It is just that it is not ductile enough. I hadnt thought of machining a heat/oil resistant nylon though.... that would be cheaper.

ok... fabricator taking too long so i convinced him to let me come into his shop and finish it all myself on saturday.

so the prototypes will be ready by end of sat... if you are going to do something... do it yourself.

I will also look into how much it will cost to have these machined up.... in both a seriously awesome plastic or aluminium... getting quotes now

ok, done... they are are little rough but these are the prototypes to test the waters... if there is an improvement (which there should be), i will make a billet set (I can then do the perfect lip design... limited with current fabrication method) which will then be tested.

i was impressed with my brazing and am overall happy with this considering how many it has taken to get right.... it is good enough to work

on monday, they will be chucked in the bike for a bum dyno test then taken out again (so that back to back testing of these can be done on the actual dyno) in a couple of weeks.

here are some pics of the finished (prototype) product after a fair bit of filing and hand sanding... have sanded more since but you get the picture/s

Nice one dude. You think they are going to work well with Motobox? Can't wait to see results!

Nice bit of work with the stacks, The results will be interesting.

The black fork leg lowers look great on the bike with the WP and BREMBO standing out.

And thanks Indy for the engine hoist beer and food... Let me know when you are doing yours... Happy to help

LOOKING GOOD ive been holding back from fitting my moto box so i could do every thing in one go

Looking good James!
I'm curious about the dyno results.

OK I WILL DIG THE MOTO BOX OUT
I was just wondering about the warranty with the bike but ive just rung my local dealers up and he says the warranty will still stand i dont have to change it every time it goes in on a service but if out goes tits up then i need to put the standard one back in

so looks like im fitting it this wk end

Sounds awesome matie, I'd definately buy a pair if they do as promised. Midrange torque rocks all the time. I also ride around 120-180kms a day when I'm home if you are looking for a real world tester, but in W.A. though

i just found two other velocity stacks that were sitting in the box that i collected when i picked mine up after finishing them (they are minus the locating fins)... they are slightly shorter but should work the same (probably to a slightly lesser degree).

so i will give them to indy84 (he has a work shop where he can fit those and lives 5 mins away)... so you wont just have to take my word for it.
Indy has a motobox so we can see how well they will fit in the most shallow airbox.

Cheers m8

i will chuck them in tomorrow morning for a quick blat to see how they go... and check to see if my tolerances inside the box are correct

ok so i installed them... here are the pics... note the white dots that have been used to line up the fins with the throttle body shafts so that the main fins are parallel with the shafts. Was around 10mm of clearance from the top of the dvs lip to the roof of the airbox (shows my measuring was pretty close), so the clearance in good.









first impressions... as expected, partial throttle response was much better and rolling on much better but unfortunately just had a big downpour before i got out on the bike so i couldnt really get a chance to give it the beans. But i will let you know shortly

I will let you know shortly what i think about them.

So close to the end! Can't wait to see what the dyno says. Prepare for a mass order on here if it shows positive figures.

as you know i took those dvs' for a run about a week ago... and wasnt overly impressed (could tell it was wanting to work but not quite)

i knew straight away what it was... throttle intakes are on an angle and i didnt account for that. I made a couple of very simple mods (shortened the bottom part of the DVS), took it for a run and all i can say is f*ck me...it is freeking stupid now. So much power... slightly more from 4g and once 5 hits it goes mental. And bogging down on full throttle at lower rpms has been eliminated.

all i can say is im very happy and am looking forward to seeing the results on the dyno shortly.

to give you an idea it was still wanting to lift the front in the air in fourth under power (no clutch)

BTW guys... who would be interested if had some custom aluminium oil catch cans made up designed to fit the sd? (was thinking of mounting the off the mounts left over after removing 2ndry throttle motor).

Glad to here it's working. I'm interested. As for the catch can would have to see it. I'm guessing your not going to breathe case pressure into the airbox.

This is awesome news James Any ideas on shipping dates and prices if dyno backs up butt dyno?

Could also be interested in catch can. Breather going into my Motobox tends to make a right mess of filter and throttle bodies. When being raped she does chuck some oil up through there.

Good stuff James.Would adding some height and a more rounded lip to the original plastic dvs do the same job or do you need a smaller diameter to increase flow.Also would a one way valve to the catch can help with crankcase breathing.Cheers.Give us a ring.I lost your number.)

well now with the slightly shorter length... material costs should be cheaper.

I am looking into giving people two options... either a oil/temperature resistant nyoln version or aluminium both would be billet (machined from the one piece), with obviously the plastic one being cheaper

you are correct... a dyno run needs to be carried out. Then another with the lip design that i always wanted (but that will be made after initial dyno testing)

it will not be sold without extensive testing and dyno charts to prove it... and i am glad that there are cynics. That keeps it all honest.

as for lifting the front wheel... it is not coming way up but its lifting off the ground in 4th.

however it used to do this with guys map (dont use this as it is way too lean though)... this is a bike that with just an akra map (before the tuneECU days), the grimbox and the custom termi's was putting out 121whp (done at the team moto opening of the virginia triumph shop)

indy84 will be testing these too as he has my spare set that were made.

as for the map i am currently running it is a combo of rallsies and otto's.. whichever was the higher value of advance was used (was happy to use ottos as i always have used it without any issues).

the map used to run too rich for my bike until the dvs was put in place... it runs well now

the issue with the standard flies is that adds to the very on off throttle as well as creating horrible turbulence with anything but 100% openings... even then the shaft is not very aerodynamic... it is about trying to speed up airflow in a positive way.

as for running no flies or shafts... i much prefer it to having the flies... but you will get to test it all out for yourself when you finish your beast.

havent seen any updates lately... hows it all coming along? far to go?

still waiting for paul to ring me about my suspension
i have ordered a set of braketech rotors though and the rear is ready to bolt on once there's a shock in there, with the forks in and the wheels on i can get it off the stand and get the exhaust and battery box assembly on then i'm just waiting for a tank.....

Has someone got a CFD package at work, that would be useful to run comparison designs?

Man that is taking some serious time to coat... Why so long?

the rear shock body needed black passivate coating and i think paul forgot about it, it's cool, not like i need it to ride.

paul.

I saw an 07 tank for sale on eBay last night.. 422 Dollars

Well I'm confident that it makes a noticeable amount of torque... I'm glad you liked the grunt Indy. Unfortunately until its run on a dyno back to back... I have no proof. I am looking forward to sharing the results with you guys shortly. I have the NC file being quoted on.

I will let you know how the pricing comes along... You can then decide if its worth the money or not

When is the dyno time happening dude?

After the gazillion public holidays that we have had lately, court appearances (fighting speeding fine that i didnt do), Uni assignments and Uni itself I am skint of both time and money for at least another fortnight. Oh yeah and service costs (big 30k km for SD and 12k for hypermotard at roughly 1g each... extorsion)

However, I will try to do the dyno run sometime soon. As this is something important that I know some of you are hanging out for.
If I have any free money left by this weekend i will try and organise something.

Wier... Next time your out samford way let me know... IV got a good map I can load on for you

Sweet! I shall let you know!

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So i rode over Mt. nebo down to samford, got more fuel and went back over Mt. nebo (closest mountain ride to me)

Definitely more power... i was rolling the power on through all the gears, up hills and trying to get a good feel of the tourque curve. I was doing standing starts on the straights to test acceleration... really strong power.

but there is a flat spot from about 7000 to 8500 rpm then it starts accelerating hard again till red line, that should be able to be tuned out of it e.g. more advance or more fuel.

Id like to increase the rev limiter.

Side notes - a very cool wistle on deceleration that wasent there b4, also more popping on decel (but not as much as b4 the motobox).
-there is more engine braking, there will be a theory behind it`(i was sliding into a corner at a 45 degree angle on engine braking)

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So now is the time for the dyno, im also a fan of taking the bike to the drag strip to see the 1/4 mile time.

So I assume that you like them.. You really can feel the loan down and mid range jump hugely in torque.

The flat spot I haven't had but when we have a look at the air fuel ratio next weekend we can find out why its there. I will have a look at your map and see if there is a richening or leaning out at that rpm. Once proven on a dyno, wait and see what the new machined ones will be like with the correct lip design (not just close enough like at the moment)

was talking to a friend of mine who makes carbon fibre parts, i asked him about making the DVS pieces... he replied by showing me the intake trumpets that he makes for the stone bothers racing team... and all the other pannels and parts that he makes for the V8 super cars and redbull f1 team.

how does only 50grams sound for the pair as opposed to ~300g

and surprisingly cheap to have made (read a lot less expensive than machining, yet still get to achieve the correct lip design)... only need to have one initial piece machined for a molding. The fins would then need to be attached as a separate thing but easily done.

Indy and I are off to do dyno testing very shortly (within 2 weeks). When proven to work I will put an order through for the carbon fibre ones.... James

this was after showing me the grass hockey stick that he had just made... with his name in the top layer of the weave. 10layers thick (most structural items are only 3). It was taken from his original stick and modified for his height. He made it on a friday afternoon... and it was flawless. His work is truly incredible... all high end autoclaved pieces.

Can't wait to see the dyno results.

i have carbon fibre intake trumpets on my 888 and they have been there for over 10 years with no issues, as long as they're a quality part they will be fine.

paul.

as loony said, cf (if of a good quality) is absolutely fine... and super stong, even at .5mm thick.

Here is a pic of intake trumpets for the Stone Brothers Racing team with the injector mounts attached... this was what my mate made. Turns out that my calcs put me within .5mm of the radius that the SBR team uses for the lip design.
( http://www.stonebrothersracing.com.au/Default.asp )

they do look nice

price... well it requires me to machine up two molds for the actual trumpet (formed as one piece) then attaching of fins after (have some clever ideas for this)... all carbon. It is possible to make them as one piece with the fins attached but would astronomically increase the price.

My mate said he is happy to attach the fins but said that he would just give me a few big offcuts to make the fins out of (to make it cheaper and faster)... use a special resin and done. So I cant quite do it at a total hands off role cheap enough (which is what i normally do... come up with the design and procure it out to someone else and annoy them like buggery until it happens)

if i do it in a more involved mannor (after tooling up... prob another 600 bucks ) i can get hold of them at a physical cost of about 60-90 bucks a pair (before i touch them)... its gonna be a real labour of love this one when/if I get a chance to make it happen. I guess it will come down to how many people will want them once the figures are proven (so they can do their own hp/$ analysis). Obviously the more made it will be cheaper.

will have to talk to indy84 to get hold of his machining shop now... the MK2 model will be free for you too if you can help out with the machining of the molds

cool. Guess it will all come down to £/HP gained equation in the end.

Those carbon trumpets definitely look the part don't they

well my other design that i was wanting to test for the dyno day has just been made... now to attach the fins
this design is a shorter one and slightly smaller...

so both my designs will be tested when indy and i do the dyno day... then whichever one works will then be done with the lip design that I really want... made in carbon but will require to molds to be made for the one piece.

Nice! Very curious for the results with the two designs

Looks great mate, let me know when your putting them in and ill head ova

They look awesome matie! I'm hanging to see the results.
If you have spare time I'd love to know why you have gone with the one inside the other as opposed to a complete new one.

This thread is much to long to not have any results yet. C'mon, I want to spend my monnies already.

problem is i either have time or money... never both

Ok, I know that progress has stalled on this a bit due to some unfortunate events, but as i understand it there are 2 SD's with these mounted right? could we get an update? a dyno chart possibly? heck, i would be willing to buy a set and test them myself just to see what would happen. there was another forum member that did something similar to this with similar results i remember reading about a couple of years back or so. So i think that the mod is probably viable, but proof would be nice!

I remember when an air box similar to the motohooligan design (same concept but flat top and bottom) came out, there were quite a few naysayers, but now the motohooligan box is a must have.

unfortunately just before the testing began I was hit by a car... Bike is still being repaired and due to useless qbe insurance and even more hopeless ktm Australia... My bike will be out for prob 4-5months in total. However I will talk with Indy and get him to try out the first set of carbon fibre dvs' which I have sitting at home.

Hi,
that really sucks to hear mate, hope you're ok.
What's the issue with QBE?

first of all it was not my fault and the other persons insurance is paying (prob is that they are qbe too), they keep on knocking things back that need to be replaced (t-boned the car and wrote it off), trying to tell me that things are safe and fully backed when the have not even tested nor will provide engineering certificates for straight forks/chassis or metal defects. I will put up with it no longer and will start pulling out the procedures that I have to go through with designing and having items built for the engineering firm that i am in.

They then got upset, blamed the the first company for not wanting to be 'reasonable' with the price(because they wanted to make sure that the frame was straight, test the forks/triples for defects and do the job properly as they know me), so they then sent the bike to team homo (without telling me) who were happy to do it for cheaper (i.e. cut corners).

To give you an idea, i hit the car so hard that the rim is well and truly out of shape and they are replacing it, however they wont replace the fairly new tyre... they want to put the old tyre that has discolored due to being pushed out of shape, the list goes on with what the assessor will not approve.

I have a good mind to put some of my contract engineers onto the assessor and prove to qbe and the ombudsman that he is either incompetent or negligent. I was being nice and letting them do their job, but i have my doubts with these guys.

They should have given me the bike and money, I would have gotten it done faster, cheaper and better with all the test certificate to prove that it is safe not a (its all good we back it, look we signed it, you're fine now). I dont care if you think its fine, I want you to be able to prove it.

However QBE will learn very quickly that they should not have tried to screw me around/over, oh and I am going to start spreading the word to those in the biking comunity of the facts of how QBE has dealt with me.

I can't believe they wanted to reuse the original tyre. That's madness!
Is Oz law so very different from ours? If you ask for things to be done, your insurance company refuses and you are killed as a result of a component failure the QBE board could be tried for corporate manslaughter and go to jail for up to 20years in the UK. Insurance companies are very risk averse here.

My exact sentiments tripod. But I would rather nor crash and die to show them that they are wrong

WHAT!!, they want to use the same tyre???.

When tyres get hit that hard, the belts delaminate and then it's only a matter of time before they
"baloon" or worse.

Those clowns give retards a bad name.

That's what I said. And they won't test the forks, triples or head stock for straightness or defects as it is not approved by the incompetent or negligent assessor.

Do not use qbe insurance unless you want a bodgy repair.

You should also set-up a local facebook group, mentioning your and others 'opinions'.

I think I am the only 25yr old without Facebook.. I plan on keeping it that way also. But I do catch up with a lot of people regularly who can help spread the word

+1

I don't disagree, I dont have 400 friends. But, the 'groups' are very visible and can be quite effective consumer action.

well gezza or anyone with face book, if you want to put this issue with QBE Motorcycle Insurance, I would much obliged... James

If you really want to stick it to them, australian insurance legislation states that a repair must be done at a "reasonable price." as long as you can prove it ie. Certs from engineers, the negligent party is 100% liable for all costs. The three quotes thing and letting someone else, including your own insurance company, choose repairer/amount of repair is a common misnomer spread by these companies. You will be backed fully by the ombudsman and the ACCC.

http://www.velocity-of-sound.com/

These are not cheep. but not horribly expensive either, I am considering ordering a couple, 50mm ID x 70mm length are about $35usd each. I would of course prefer to buy a set of tested and proven carbon fibre units (hint hint )

G'day Mr Z32,

I was reading in your earlier posts that there wasn't enough room in the Airbox for you to put in the correct length of stack that you wanted.
I was wondering what the optimal length of stack would be if the Air box wasn't an issue eg, a GoGo style box using the underside of the tank as the top of the box?

will be ready by the weekend... indy... wanna give them a try when they are done (dont have a bike atm)

Looks promising! Very curious about the results of these.
Any idea what the price is gonna be for a set?

the DVS's i can have made fairly cheap... i may make them so they are already pre-assembled into a ktm velocity stack so you know they are right (all glued in) so it will be as simple as twisting the old ones out and swapping with the new... cost to me is around 50+ 35 (80) bucks (and lots of time until i can streamline the process) i would think (unless we got a core swap thing happening).

the machined items... well i may end up sending that over to motohooligan once done as machining costs a lot more over in oz than it does in the states... wouldnt imagine that the machined stacks would be cheap though... as a lot of material is used (read wasted) to get to that point... at a guess, half the price of a motobox... but heres the good part, they could be shipped individually to miss import taxes?

Thanks! I really admire all the time and effort you put in to this!
Keep it up!

model was given to the machinests at uni,the prototypes should be ready in about two weeks (for the replacement for the stock intake).. not the DVS'

well they are now made up and will be finished tonight... they will be bonded into the standard stacks permanently for extra strength

Indy... come and grab them tomorrow if you want

You can count me in.I am not a top end guy I like mid and low end.I ride with friends that have much faster bikes top end wise.They got 40 mph always blow by me on long straights.I always get them back in the tight stuff so I need that kind of power low and mid range when I need the power right now.It will we interesting on the tracks that don't have long high top end straights. Keep me posted I love to mess around stuff like that.

Can't wait to see some dyno figures. Although don't really fancy paying for mine to hit the dyno twice in 12 months.

Is there a different way to make those float in the other stack? If those fins fall off your pretty much screwed. Im interested to see what these will do. Do you think this will rob top end?

You making a Carbon airbox like the DNA STAGE 3"? IM IN..

getting closer now

Fark... they look awesome

Awesome! I definitely need a set!

Sexy....I wanna put my DUKE in them.

Looking good mate.

ok i picked them up, i have ditched the standard twist lock for a keeper plate design (as it was a favour, and the rest would have required a lot of extra time which they did not have).



i will fit them either this weekend or tonight (unlikely though for tonight).

they are beautiful.. and I cannot wait to run all these different mods on the dyno after my exams.

on a totally off topic subject... for those who are mechanically minded check this out (note that even on the upwards stroke of the conrod the there is power being applied to the usually 'dead' stroke)



this has actually been made and put into a ducati.

does anyone in brisbane want to try these out?


i will need them back for the dyno testing this summer but they only take 10mins to fit or pull out.

10 mins ??? i wish you worked in my KTM garage

Practice makes perfect. All it is is 10 bolts on my bike or 12 with a motobox. I have a ratchet t handle that makes short work of everything. Just ask Indy how much I love that thing. Lol

Looking forward to the dyno results!

Motobox on both, but the SDR is still a few weeks away.
I'll be taking the trusty old girl around to see if I can pick up some pace.

after the 16th i will finish my machined up intakes and air bag them over for your track day... but i will be wanting them back after.

or i could send you the DWG's to get some machined up over there (would prefer this one, will do them up as PDF's). The DVS' i dont think are what you want as i think they are more suited the street... what you want is as much HP as possible.

we could even experiment with shortening the intake (for the time being before i start seriously looking at variable length intakes). Do you know any fitter & turners near you that If given drawings could knock up? If the twist lock system is ditched it can all be done an a lathe (easy and cheap)

Guessing that you will be wanting one of the swingarm braces when im done?

delete

I will be here Sat Morning... Heck if you want, feel free to try all 3 designs i have. When/where do you plan on testing these... Might even take some time off from work come along

I should be good for Sat morning if you still want me to dyno test the mod for you, it is a 3 hour round trip for me so would come early, should be there around 800am, can you PM me your address & we can exchange mobile numbers. If you can't make Sat that is no problem, I will be back on the dyno in a few weeks again if you still want the mod tested.

I work in Newstead, if you work close by I could pick them up from you tomorrow or Friday.

Watching and waiting with intent! They look tasty even if you rarely see them. What's the weight difference over standard? 200g +/- ?

You going to run a taller filter? You wanna make another box?

Are you using the throttle bodies lugs to mount the new stacks? I can't see clearly but it looks like they are bolted down.

My throttle body tops.



Looking at your photo's I am not sure if the new stacks will clear the left lower DNA air box bolt & air filter, what do you think, can you PM me the outer diameter so I can check to see if it will clear, I would hate to ride all the way to you & it won't fit? Also your air box is much better suited with better air flow around the stack with it being off set compared to the DNA air box.

Let me know if you can get the machining done today otherwise I can test them at a later date. It is a bit to late for me to pull my tank off tonight (Friday night) as I am out for dinner tonight to measure the 94mm.

Can you PM me you address & mobile number.

I will be passing the servo by you around 930/945am are you able to meet me at that time tomorrow morning?

Yes... Will see u there
can you please pm me your mobile no. Just to make it easier to catch you

PM sent with Mobile, catch up in the morning.

13 Months. 9 Pages (200+ posts). I just read all of them. At least, I'm pretty sure I did.

But, I'm not sure why. I feel like I missed something. Lot's of interesting ideas, some nice pictures of pretty hardware - all good.

Did I just miss a page or something, where there are beautiful dyno plots showing improvements throughout the power band - ? Seems an awful lot of energy spent for bling and butt-dyno proclamations. There sure is a lot of cart in front of this horse ... As a fellow engineer (not civil), I tend to live and die by test results.

On the possibility I didn't overlook "the numbers" - as in, they don't exist - Is everyone (anyone?) game to PayPal this poor SOB a couple of bucks to get something - anything - dyno'd?

Kev is helping me out a bit at the moment. I was about to get dyno testing done 6 months ago but was then hit by a car.. Development went on hold. I only just got my bike back from repairs... So I have started again. So there will be results shortly.

Good to meet you as well James. You might be onto a winner depending on where you want the torque.

I have tested both version this afternoon James still has version 3 on his bike, as mentioned I will be on the Dyno on Monday 21.11.11 & will post the facts.

James I have PM you the Winpep7 program please install it & I will send you the Dyno run files for detailed viewing On Monday.

Such pretty engineering its metal-porn

Now you need a transparent tank and airbox so every one can see


what are the results on dyno?

Ok guys I built a single cylinder tune map for all my mods using Tune Link software with my PCV today.

The mods on my bike for the dyno run.
DNA MK3 air box.
Leovince pipes.
2nd flies & shafts removed.
EPC turned off.
O2 sensors turned off.
Custom PCV map with single cylinder tunning.

I did a final power run then fitted the metal stacks & as the results show the stacks made HP & Torque everywhere. I some places up to 5HP.

The Green run is my final power run after the custom mapping
The Red run is with the metal stacks fitted no map change, we should be able to pick up more HP & Torque below 6000 rpm as the stacks made the bike run around 12:1 below 6000rpm.

Well done James you have done well. I did have a glitch with the fibre stacks & was unable to test them, I have Emailed James the run files, at least James now has something to work from. Also there would be different results with different air boxes so it is still early days, lets hope there is more hidden HP & Torque in this mod. As mentioned to James if he needs Dyno testing I have no problems running my bike on the Dyno for testing any performance mod.

Very nice. Put me down for a pair.

YEEHARR.... 10 PAGES WORTH OF RESERCH PAID OFF!!!!!

Well done James, thats a great result. You da man . I'll get my letter off to Santa tonight. . I think you'll need a manufacturer who can churn them out because I'm sure the demand will be there. Can't wait to see what you come up with for the variable intakes.

Great result! Great job, I admire your persistence.
Just out of curiousity, what would the effect be of a triple velocity stack?

A MASSIVE THANKS TO KEV for throwing them on the dyno for me.. i think that you have a pair reserved for you. I think the carbon ones have the potential to be better than the metal ones but only time will tell.

once you have moved the column in the DNA airbox, you will have to try my cnc'd stacks... i keep adding fuel higher up and it just keeps pulling harder... i think for overall hp the CNC'd ones will be the best and if you want the mid range you could combine the two. im guessing an overall improvement of 7-8% (possibly more) is possible rather than just 5%. I am getting to the point where the theory is proven but the margins of error in design now need to changed step by step for proven performance (i do not have the capability with the flow software yet to get much better and am running based of certain assumptions which may not be entirely correct).

Like the point that i was not expecting that much extra top end... I was expecting maybe one HP more (something not really measurable as all sorts of factors could throw it out by that much... but 3-5hp more is a measurable difference... i have had a huge smil on my face all day knowing that this is now proven rather than just the butt dyno

Kev good test, well done James

A mate is CNCing your model up for me now James, I probably won't have time to dyno it. But it'll get a good run on the third. They should be there for me when I get home.

before we get ahead of ourselves we need to prove in in a more common airbox too... like the more confined motobox. If it works in the shallowest of all the airboxes i am onto a winner.

Indy... im going to need to borrow you and your bike for a dyno day... maybe we could book out the dyno for the day

Yeah its the twist lock pair. I flung them to my cousin who is a machinist and he's got one of his mates to help me. I'm not sure on cost though, hoping pretty good mates rates.
Who knows, I may just get excited and get it dyno'd if I have the time, but I doubt it.

wow this looks impressive

would these also fit into the standard Airbox ? I know that others are better, but noise gets the cops close real quick over here.
Any plans when they would be up for purchase ?

Interesting results and totally the opposite of what I would have expected to happen.

It looks like your stacks are longer and narrower - which should have resulted in peak torque being pushed down the rev range.

Yet you seem to have lost volumetric efficiency below 6k, by the fact that the mixture has gone rich, yet you haven't lost any power, if anything you have gained at these revs !?

The switch at 6k is interesting - just shows if someone could engineer some variable height stacks and use the secondary flies map / motor to control them we could be on for some useful gains at all revs.

From all the dyno work that I have done over the years I would suggest that a good custom map is built first so you have a good comparison to work from, if you use a poor A/F to start with the mod results will be poor.

We know the metal stacks works well with the MK3 DNA air box & would like to see what the gains & losses are with a standard & Moto air box, there are a few other things going on with these tacks & the MK3 air box that might be helping get he numbers up, James & I have discussed the points, testing the stacks with the Moto box will answer a few of the unkowns.

I agree with James there is still plenty of testing to be done.

I nominate .... me..... for the motobox stack tests... i have an original metal set... but we will have to see what the carbon ones do

James forks are off to springwood today so can't see my bike being available for this w/e unfortunately. Still can't get the shock bolt out unfortunately.

Do you think those stacks would work on the RC8 as well?

Well I'm booked in for some dyno time this coming Thursday with Indy. Will have them tuned and different intakes tested including the billet items.

I don't know what the rc8 intakes or airbox look like but if you give me some part numbers I could see if they are the same type used in the sd's. If anyone in bris has an rc8 and wants to let me have a look, it is always a possibility.

Air box and throttle boddies are quite similar,

airbox:

1 69006002044 FILTER BOX UPPER PART CPL. 1 78.99
3 69006001000 FILTER BOX LOWER PART 1 27.49
4 69006015000 FILTER ELEMENT 1 24.99
5 69006041060 PROT. GRILL INTAKE SNORKEL R/S 1 3.49
6 69006040060 PROT. GRILL INTAKE SNORKEL L/S 1 3.49
7 69006041000 INTAKE SNORKEL R/S 1 25.49
8 69006040000 INTAKE SNORKEL L/S 1 25.49
9 69006041050 SNORKEL SEALING R/S 1 25.49
10 69006040050 SNORKEL SEALING L/S 1 23.99
11 69006015050 BRACKET F. EFI-PLUG 1 4.99
12 0081050161 EJOT PT SCREW K50X16 1451 10 0.99
13 69006004000 FILTER BOX COVER R/S 2 4.99
14 69006001030 THROTTLE ROPE CHANNEL 1 6.49
15 69007029000 PVC-CLAMP HEYCO 13,9 3379 1 2.49
16 69006001040 PROTECTION SLEEVE FUEL HOSE 1 6.99
17 69006087000 MOLDED HOSE ENGINE BREATHER 1 21.49
18 58431082100 YDNAC-CLAMP 10173 (16MM) 1 0.99
19 0024060206 HH COLLAR SCREW M6X20 2 2.49
20 0081400253 PLASTIC SCREW KA40X25WN1412 8 0.99
21 0017060303 SPECIAL SCREW T60 6X30 8 0.99
22 58031005000 CLAMP YDNAC 10128 12MM 2 2.99
23 60015019001 HOSE NBR 7X11 PER METER X 7.99
24 0025080126 HH COLLAR SCREW M8X12 1 2.49



1 0081500181 SCREW FOR PLASTIC D=5X18 2 0.99
2 61041080000 AMBIENT-AIR TEMPERATURE SENSOR 1 15.99
3 61041085150 RUBBER SUPP. PRESSURE SENS. 3 4.99
4 61041085100 PRESSURE SENSOR 3 117.49
5 61036023100 VACUUM CONECTION 2 10.49
6 60031098001 HOSE 3,2X8,5 PER METER X 11.99
8 61241040000 INTAKE TRUMPET 2 5.49
9 61241001000 THROTTLE BODY CPL. DK52 1 971.49
10 69006001031 SENSOR-RETAIN. PLATE AIRBOX 1 10.99
11 69006001032 HOLDER WIRING HARNESS REAR 1 14.49
12 0081050161 EJOT PT SCREW K50X16 1451 4 0.99
13 61041031200 TIMING CHARGER EFI 1 590.49
14 60039030000 VIBRATION DAMPER DIGITALBOX 2 1.49
15 0021050003 WASHER DIN9021-A 5,3 2 0.49
17 0912040203 AH SCREW DIN 912-M 4X20 2 0.99
18 61041088050 SHIM 4,3X15X1,25MM GALVANIZED 2 0.99
19 61041088000 ROLLOVER SENSOR 1 43.99
20 0024060106 HH COLLAR SCREW M6X10 1 1.99
21 69041088050 HOLDER ROLLOVER SENSOR 1 15.99
22 75041023020 O-RING 3 7.49
23 75041023010 SEAL RING 2 8.49
24 61241023044 INJECTOR CPL. 2 145.99
25 61241013044 FUEL HOSE CPL. 1 113.99
27 61241013060 SCREW SHOULDER 2 5.49
28 61041060040 SCREW FOR SUPPORT STEPPER MOT. 1 3.49

stacks and airbox look very different. If I gave you a sketch with dimensions that you need to add would you be able to have a look? Obviously I need to get the SD ones off the ground first but it is possible.

Yes I guess I could do it the week after the 3rd of december as I am quite busy right now...

If you have a standard airbox, you will get bigger gains by either going to the pods or putting a propper inlet/ram air setup on the snorkel as that is the big limiting factor on those.

Once the airbox can flow more, then the velocity stacks become the limiting factor

James have you heard anything regarding Mialia tea house being closed today, very strange?

no mate.. why is that... was open saturday. I know not many people have been going there since the new owners... crap coffee and the price jumped up hugely

getting everything ready for the big dyno day, have even had some spacers made up to fit the motobox to raise the roof of the motobox by as much as 15.5mm (water cut nitrile cork)... this will be to allow for the extra height required for the DVS' to work efficiently.

i for one am getting very excited to try my three different intakes on two different air boxes

well i thanks to the dimensions from Silverbear (and a lot more help than what most would realise),
i sketched up some drawings and had some gasket made up to modify the motobox.

well i dropped by indy's place today on the way home from worked, tried the first spacer... heaps of room.

lets try the thicker spacer... still works... turns out we just got a significant increase from roof of the airbox and the top of the stacks, giving that extra clearance required.

i will test the same thing on my 08 tanked model before i get ahead of myself.

but here is a pic of what i had water cut. If enough people with motobox's are interested, they would not cost that much to make either.



James

Nice work! But isn't it possible to fit a tapper filter in the motobox? For figuring out how tall the filter can be, the gaskets would be ideal, but as soon as you know the amount of clearance, a taller filter Should be possible. Or am i missing something.
Edit: judging from the pics, the spacers aren't that thick. In that case, Forget what i just sake.

Wow, bolt on 4hp without tuning... Im sold.
Im not quite following the part about the MH Box?
Does it work with it or not? It seems to read like it will with the spacer.
But does the tank fit on properly with the spacer in?

Thanks.

Thanks for the run files James received them 10pm last night, I will have a look at them to analyze what is happening with the different stacks & raised lid heights, James I sent an Email last night with a few questions on calcification on the run files numbers.

So what do we know now, these stacks do work, they have been tested on 3 different bikes, with 3 different air boxes on 2 different dynos, all three bikes show similar gains, we now know the stacks need a high air box lid to perform well, the Motor air box needs spacing with the stacks the DNA MK3 does not.

The Future, James is working with the Moto air box & the stacks, I am working with the DNA air box's & stacks, to try & get more out of these stacks & different air boxes.

As mentioned before James has done well with his stack mod & now it has been a proven mod that works with the 3 X 990's been dyno tested.

I received the aluminium CNC'd Velocity stacks today and ran them on a Dyno.
It was very hot but still got 121.9hp with normal and 124.9hp with them in.
Interesting as the previous Dynojet Dyno had 131hp, apparently this one is able to give a constant load and measures everything a little lower.(and truer)
Thought it would be nice to hear from someone on the otherside of Oz, these are the prototype ones of MrZ32's design.
I'm running:
Motobox no shafts
full Akra EVO
PCIII no O2
Was hoping for more but bikes being bikes, it is never predictable from bike to bike with any mod, mine may just well be a little restricted further down.
Have yet to put the spacer on the Motobox to see the difference but 3hp is promising for just a plain stack, can't wait to see the results of the rest!

I'm off to the track tomorrow to see if I notice any difference.
I'll be running the first two sessions without and the next with them in, it will be 37C so that'll probably be the best of the reliable morning runs.
I'm timing all with a GPS timer.

Nice results, James filled me in this evening on your runs, don't worry about the peak HP we are interested in the before & after gains.

santa is powering up his sleigh and it would be nice if there were a present in it for me with some stacks.... any estimated price?
Really good work!!!

Looking good dude. I can see a few orders coming your way very soon

Sorry mate, I just read what I wrote and was not clear about what happened, I got 3hp after full remapping.

ahh righto,
still impressive, shows how little thought was put into the injection of these by keihin/ktm i guess
they look nice too!

yeah i figured that looking at the curve, nice consistent improvement through the range, with the new velocity stacks. has anything further happened with the DVS?

PAUL.

ok... after lots of mucking around here are my runs... back to back testing (no fuelling changes until tuned on the CNC'd items)

Once again a huge thanks to Andrew at Procycle Dyno 07 3808 4003
http://www.procycledyno.com.au/

he really looked after Indy and I, and really was impressive to watch on the dyno

i will have to post some photos on monday of the dyno day and the mighty SD's

standard Vs carbon stacks (DVS)


standard Vs metal stacks (DVS)


Standard Vs CNC'd stacks


Standard Vs CNC'd stack & carbon DVS


Standard Vs Loaded final run


i will scan in my final power run later coming in at 128hp

for Indy's runs (all done with the motobox and the spacer in)

all standard runs


standard Vs carbon stacks (DVS)


Standard Vs Metal stacks (DVS)


standard Vs CNC'd stacks


standard Vs tuned Metal stacks (DVS) - loaded


his final power run will be posted up shortly by Indy at 134hp i think it was

Congratulations, good job Only one thing to say looking at those charts...... When can I get some

Hey MrZ post my final Hp chart??? please.... Get ready fellow dukers

I will have to pick up your final chart off of you as I do not have a copy of that run... Nor do I have an electronic copy of my 128hp run... Will have to post those on Monday... Are we riding tomorrow?

Finally you make mention of the awesome torque improvements. 5-6 lb feet is terrific. Well done indeed.

Awesome results on several bikes!

now fellas please not, the carbon stacks make the same HP as the metal ones but use less fuel, these would have been on Indy's bike had it not been for my concerns with longevity... they will be ready once for sale however (talking with my carbon fibre mate to increase strength just to be on the safe side (i have however run them for close to 1000km without any issues what so ever).

I am also looking into combining the new VS with the carbon DVS and will be looking into having them made as one piece.

but I will see about the availability of the two separately too (Kev, i will be talking with you shortly)

Not thought of having these injection moulded in one piece, you would then have no worries bonding the DVS to the OEM KTM stacks, just a simple one piece replacement for the original KTM parts

Not so nice to look at as carbon or spun aluminium I know, and yes the tooling cost is an upfront investment, but the unit cost would be low,

After all you cant see them when the tank is down A one pice part would be 100% reliable and would look more professional to,

Just a thought

Fantastic results.....

Nice simple way of getting more head room on Motohooligan as well, top hp was with DNA mk3 ?

I agree with russ...all in one would be the way to go...... .could be funded by taking deposit from intrested parties ...I think you will have a lot of intrest

Again well done

Not so very expensive where I work

Yeah and over here as long as you pay the tooling cost they dont really care if you order 1,000 pieces or 100,000

Also the unit here cost would only be the weight of the material used and a small labour cost for the machine minder, trimmer

show me were to sign only downside is my bike is booked in for a custom map tomorrow

Cheesie... This is the only mod the I know of that will produce more hp and torque while requiring less fuel. If you bike is tuned to a perfect13:1 it will drop to around 12.1:1 so you do not need to worry about running lean. The plus side is that if you do tune it for them you will get better fuel economy as well as more power/torque

From my runs I found below 6500rpm the A/F ratio was rich & after 6500rpm it was OK & agree with James when you lean out the A/F ratio to 13:1 below 6500 rpm you should see a gain in fuel economy, just remember these runs were produced at 100% throttle.

RED run custom made map, BLUE run 2nd stack fitted no map change. Both runs are on the same bike on the same dyno 10min apart.

at the moment I am looking into pricing of a combined version of the cnc'd stacks and the carbon stacks printed as a one piece plastic item. Otherwise for those who cannot wait I will be able to get some of the carbon stacks knocked up in the mean time but again waiting on prices to get back to me.

I am also looking into further modifications on the motobox for the best conditions for the intakes... read better than all and maybe for a decent price.


more of the fun day last thursday

all these were run on two different bikes


Indy's



and mine


and after the big day... decided to try a different look (although have put the lower fender back on)

slowly getting closer to to a one piece unit

metal stack knock up with a bit of fine tuning


carbon stack know up with tuning


now back to the dyno in a month or two

however for those interested in the CNC'd stacks... i can find out what the cost would be (if you cannot wait.. they are what i am running currently)

interested, send you a PM already !

Thanks Mate,

replied, with an estimate cost however i would recommend waiting on a little bit more testing from my end first. There are 3 guys in brisbane and 1 in perth who are currently testing these items in extreme heat for performance and durability. At this point in time it would be hard to get anything done before early next year.. which will allow for further development until then.

Thankyou for your interest.

James

Are you saying the carbon stacks are going to be a fair bit cheaper than the CNC'd James?

thanks for that Kev, nice find. It is a little bit different in application, however it is closer to reality than what you may think as air comes in from the sides (due to where the filter is (except for the standard airbox)). So yes, its a very similar principle... but my intakes are further improved again and have been designed to remove those 'dead' spots in the air flow that are shown (as we have limited room in the airbox, large 'dead' zones are not acceptable in the design criteria).

Nice results James! If you need more testing I might have free or cheap access to the local dyno for a bit.
Maybe I can even do my own thing as I have done the owner a few favours repairing electrical issues on bikes.
Might have to hold off for a bit till it cools down as too hot and humid to do good dyno runs.
I'm currently looking at making an air filter which should work very well with the stacks. I'll keep you posted.

has anyone tested these on an sdr yet, is there a difference in diameter in the v stacks on the sdr than an sd, will you be able to supply the spacer to raise the airbox

They will be tested on an SDR in the next couple of weeks.
Mid January at the latest

Good morning!

@ MrZ32 wrote a PM to yours on Dec, 15th, but no answer yet.

Did you get it?

Thank you
Roland

I will have to check tonight... My inbox has been filling up rather quickly lately. I do apologize.

to keep everyone in the loop, the plan is to have 5 bikes from 06 sd's to sdr's and sm's locally for durability testing. If all is looking good expect full scale production by start of Feb.

argh man . feb now seems miles away .

i keep my fingers crossed that those which are interested can use it before the season starts here in Europe
I need more torque

Nampus, just use a costum TuneECU map from somebody with the same mods till you have the stacks and then do the dyno time.

Once the final stacks have been decided on I will do a custom single cylinder tuned PCV map via Tune link which I will share, as these DVS make the bike run to rich below 5500rpm with the Akra map on my SMR, James SD showed the exact same richness results with his custom map & the DVS installed.

Mine ran rich also across the whole range with the CNC stacks...
Am testing the carbons soon, keen to fell the part throttle response

ok gents,

you have seen what the intakes can do... i need to get an idea of how many people are seriously interested in buying a pair of these... there is a small amount of testing that i would like to do (small improved modifications as well as better option than a spacer), however it is getting to a point where I am negotiating a price with the carbon fiber guys and another company which will remain un named until after further dyno testing.

so please give me an idea ... add a list to together of who would like a pair (more people, the cheaper it can be... it also means that they can be of a slightly more complex but better design with the possibility of both a DVS and VS replacement). This is not asking for a deposit... just people who are pretty certain that they would want a pair

I'll be in mate after a litle more testing
Maybe you should start a new dedicated thread for potential buyers?

what do you mean you will be in... i think you are the only other person running the carbon intakes other than me

so there are currently 4 pairs being used... two which are combined (CNC VS (to be replaced by carbon ones which are cheaper to make) and the carbon DVS)

So long as it works with a Motobox and the price is fair I'm in.


James have you updated the custom map you sent me with the large amount of ignition advance. Runs lean down low and the cold weather is only aggravating it.

i have one that is suited to my bike... however it is leaner than most of the maps out there... but gives a fairly constant 12.9:1

Count me in. (MH box)

count me in for a set of stacks, i assume for a DNA Box no spacer is needed ..

Count me in (DNA so no spacer needed)

Me too. (moto hooligan box)

8 pairs so far

Since your stacks are supposed to increase power across the curve I'm a bit hesitant to add the stacks on the current map I'm running. Its nothing bad, just some hesitation off the line under a lot of throttle and above 3K RPM its fine. Your thoughts? Switch maps? Adjust map? It'll be fine?

Im in "Motobox"
Anychance of a map for my setup ? PLEASE

Count me in (MH box) it comes with a custom map right?

one set please(depending on price)

Me too. (MH box). A quick show of hands please . Is everybody running these, or intends to run them, removed their sec. flies and shaft?

Im in for sure. I have the MH box. Thanks

Well..... i already have my set...but... if i didn't i would get a set...

In terms of bolt on horse power its one of the "best bang for bucks" you can get

How much and when? I'm most likely good for a set, but not right now, in the spring after tyres but before dynoing my 2-1 pipe.

I'll take a set as well for a MH box.

Hi,

I am in as well, not depending if it will be the CNC or split version of the DVS, personally I do not see any reason against the split version.

Take care
Roland

count me in also [mh box]

I'm in for a set too. (motohooligan box, no flies, no shafts)

oh and up to 24... we might be able to do some pretty cool stuff after all... a carbon VS/DVS is now on the cards.

and for your information, it is not the cheap crappy wet lay up gear that we seem to spend a fortune on... it is the top end autoclaved pre preg gear used in F1 and the like

don't forget me (motobox)

James have you posted this on the KTM forum? I'm sure some SD'ers and SM/R owners would def be interested.

And adventurer riders.. Any 990/950 motor really

But no I haven't posted elsewhere... If others wanted to link this onto those sites... That would be appreciated.. That being said I have already just about reached the amount that I can afford on the first batch/run on these things

Ah in that case not much point atm. Im sure word will spread fast if everyone is happy with what it does to our bikes.

In (grimbox).

-Chris

I'm interested! Any idea about the price?

OK - I guess I'd like to get in on the first run too
Motobox, please - I like the idea of using less fuel .

Add one --motobox please. And any Motobox spacer additions.

If you are going to be shipping to the states, then I am another Motobox owner to count in on this shenanigans.

hey all

just a quick thought , the very first motoboxes were physically wider than the later/current motobox . the box was initially designed around an 05/06 SD which had the smaller capacity tank and a little bit more space underneath it . when the 07 onwards with the larger tank was released the original motobox was a pretty neat fit .
to the best of my knowledge there were very few early boxes out there before Aaron modified his design to fit all models of SD . dunno how much difference this will make to whatever James has come up with to raise the top and give clearance for the dual velocity stacks . just thought it was worth a mention .

that said i am interested in a set from the first batch if poss please . i have a motobox so would need whatever spacer/adapter is reqd . i will also be taking out the secondary flies .

i would like a ballpark idea of cost if poss shipped to the UK .

take it easy

Rich

I bought my Motobox in 2009 I think. I'll PM Aaron to to if its going to be an issue with my 06 bike. Hopefully not.

i got my first motobox in november 08 and had the modified one by the end of november 08 . my original motobox went to Millar .

if memory serves Aaron made three motoboxes as a trial run to see what interest there was . Joe got one as did someone else in the states , i forget who . i got the other one . a credit to Aaron for sorting stuff as quick as he did . if you did get your motobox in late 09 you should be safe size wise . i suspect there is a pretty low number of original motoboxes out there .

take it easy

rich

What a thread--Whew!

1.) Is there a timeline/price associated with these stacks?

2). Should I hold off on selling Motobox/buying DNA 3 (for the 1.5 HP's--I know--I AM that kind of guy) as it SOUNDS like a new box is under developement......

Thanks.

hey JohnJJr

like Hidrio said the stacks will still need the spacer in the motobox to allow for height clearance , it was the width of the very early motoboxes that was a little larger . hope this helps

rich

Anyone know for sure or actually fitted either a MH box or DNA and kept the lower part of the Standard SD airbox in place

I have very good reasons for asking and it is related to this thread

The problem is always going to be that a lot of the air reaching the throttles bodies has come through the rad. Unless you come up with a ram scoop like I think GoGo did then you'll never get past this problem. As to noise I love the sound my SD makes. Never once had a copper comment on the noise it makes apart from to say it sounds great One once recommended I put the baffles back in but it was pretty tongue in cheek.

Could you sum up the gains on several configurations?

Please add one more to the list (DNA mk3 most likely)

Wow, this is fantastic. Been away for a while dealing with the neck surgery (and possible 2nd one), but I just read through the thread and am definitely interested in getting a set to fit my MotoBox...I need to head to the dyno for some tweaking anyway. Brilliant!

Is there any idea of prices yet and availability

The carbon fibre workshop opens on Mon 16/1. Negotiations start tomorrow I just wanted to know what numbers I was talking

I'll purchase a set (motobox)

So around 35 in this run.. So a likely 40 if the ktm forum get involved

mr z sir , how do you think the stacks would work pod filters as i am just about to shell some hard earned on a dna.

A proper airbox will allow the vs/dvs to work properly. The vs in the pipeline will not fit pods.. So a DNA,grimbox or motobox will be required.

thanks

All just a question of price and delivery scales.

Add me up for a set as well. Probably DNA3.

thx

In theory you can do the same thing by increasing the stack length. Longer means more low end ,less upper. Shorter means more upper, less lower. This is just reducing the stack diameter which is the same thing as a longer stack. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Check this for tuning

Pretty cool. Make that

Please read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The idea of the dvs is that I can then use a shorter stack set up for high rpm but use the the dvs to keep or boost up the bottom end.. Best of both worlds... You will be very happy to see what I have currently in the pipeline

Well I just got off the phone with the carbon guys. I will be sending through the drawings with a combined VS/DVS. They are assessing any changes that are required for the extra strength of the fins (as those who know me, i don't like doing anything unless its perfect).

They are also going to put together any recommendations in how to keep the cost down as well as if any extra molds are required... And if so, how many for the size of the run

What sort of timescale are you working to?
Will you be taking firm orders before commencing the production run?
I for one don't mind sending you the money up front if that makes life easier.

I do not mind either to send the money upfront!

Just, paypal would be great, of course the fees by my side, for the overseas bank rates are horrible hereover.

Thank you
Roland

Followed your thread closely since the beginning.

Great work.

Count me in when you are taking orders, Motobox version for me please.

what they said ^

As above too.

+1

Mee tooooo pleeeeze

ok


just a teaser to what i am currently running as i have changed over to a motobox from my grimbox and can now flow the air required for this setup

bear in mind... you wont get cnc stacks (only two people in the world have both... lol)... the whole thing will be carbon









and now for the stuff that will matter for you.... tooling up for the batch run.

these are the jigs that will allow 20 pairs to be part built at a time

Gee Mr Z,
You certainly know how to tease.
Have you any idea on price and availablity yet

I was out today with my DVS in the mountains behind Brisbane & the bike is unreal in the mid range 6000 to 8500 RPM theres so much more torque in that range, I now tend to shift sooner then without them, they make a big difference.

Torque Dyno run displayed
Blue dyno run tuned with single cylinder tunning no DVS fitted. Verse Green run DVS fitted, no mapping change no custom mapping with the DVS. The only thing changed between these two runs is the Dual Velocity Stacks.

Glad you really like them mate... It changes the way you ride... The bike then pulls strongly from 3k.

I know silverbear has been enjoying his too.

As for price... I have an idea in mind.. It is just trying to work out a way to get it to that price but I don't want to disclose it as I may not be able to reach my target

Any rough idea of a shipping date James?

All good things to those who wait

I`m liking that torque curve, looking very much like my TLs, nice steep jump from just over 5k perfect for firing out of corners

Well I just changed over to a modified motobox... Holy crap!!! Engine spins up so much faster, revs harder, louder intake noise... Wow just wow... Maybe I will break 130hp after all

After looking at the two back to back I understand why the grimbox can't cut it... The domed head allows a much better flow in the air... Looking forward to re testing with the Motobox and the even newer vs/dvs combo (different to what you have seen int the previous pics but better)

MrZ32, stop teasing us

+1 . getting unbearable

Yeah - Fooking Come on Mang !!!!

This can only be a big marketing scheme to get top dollar - OK everyone Stop showing interest ....

Wish i could say to Hell with it and i dont want any LOL :

Best marketing scheme ever! Half the forum can't get their wallets out fast enough for something we've yet to see, me included

I'm pissing all over the floor like an over excited puppy

Solid gold pussy dude!

This is driving me nuts.
i get up in the morning rush home from work and log on just to see if theres any uread posts on this thread.
Im even having one last check before i go to bed even though ive just checked a couple of mins earlier.
Please hurry up and give us an idea of availability and costings

Hi, good morning!

Btw., did anybody do any testing with foam filters like these from Pipercross of the automotive section?

To my opinion there should be nearly no restriction to the airflow and even with the dirt should be no matter as they are used in much dirtier conditions.

Any reasons against?
Roland

Someone keep me updated on this, when something is for sale? I haven't read the thread, as I I don't understand half of the tecnique. I just want the bike to run better


So these twenty pages has all been about some new velocity stacks, which is like a funnel for air, that sits inside the airbox? hmm

The ones being printed would be expensive, however I do ha a dulled down version that is easily made... And should keep the cost reasonable... And the airflow will almost be the same[/quote]
Almost be the same? How much better are the 3D printed ones and would they be available if someone was willing to pay the extra cost?[/quote]


A 3D printed complete DVS set would take around 3 hours to make & would cost around Australian $400 per set at my cost my price for one offs, the 3D stacks will be made 100% to the designed spec. To get 2 sets printed & to Dyno test them on two different bikes would cost over $1000 for the 2 sets & Dyno time & that is just to see if they will work.

I don't think you guys realise how much money has been poured in behind the scenes by James & others to make the many proto types + Dyno test them, & the work is still going on to find more HP & Torque. Not only has James been woorking on the DVS but there is a nice surprise for the MH owners to come.

The dna box will still will be the best by a measurable margin... It just means that the motobox will work with the dvs. I will do a back to back test with the DNA mk3 and the motobox... You guys will just have to work out what you want when you see the results

I am sure the guys will be happy, you have catered for both air boxes.

The printed stacks are to prove a point on back to back dyno runs.. The intakes do not need to last very long. My concern with the printed intakes is that they will become brittle and fail over time... And where these things sit, failure is not an option. Carbon fibre has been proven and used in intakes for some time now and will be the way forward.
so no, the printed intakes will not be produced for sale until proven.

in the future it could be possible to retrofit a part to make it the same as the printed pair, however that is a fair way off

If the stacks are printed in ABS plastic there will not be any problems in the long term at all. We are just printing & testing at the moment as it is much cheaper for one offs, for a production run of complete DV stacks James will more than likely use carbon if the latest design works, otherwise the stacks some of us are running at the moment in Oz work great.

ABS printed = more expensive than carbon... considerably.

injected = less than carbon but only on big batch runs

Really pissing me off checking this forum and finding no unread posts on this thread.
Bet a few of you looked at this though

all this time and money with a 1300cc SD right around the corner? save your money men!

There is a high possibility that this is the case... But at the moment I am dealing with what is currently available

From the interest shown on here I don't think many are thinking about the 2013 SDR. There is a whole 12 months of biking between now and then and personally even if it is a kick ass SDR I would be buying new anyway. Bring on the DVS James, can't wait to install a set in my beloved SD.

Am i asking for too much here or could this be possible.
When the carbon velocity stacks become available would it also be possible to get the uprated higher lid or spacer for my "bought last year " motobox and the best breather mod kit all in one hit.
PLEASE

That's the plan mate... It is just about getting all the behind the scenes stuff done. But yes they will be sold together after showing you the proof that it works

fellas.. i am gutted, and am very sorry,

pricing has come through and carbon fiber is no longer an option. I am back to the drawing board... do not fret though. I have some ideas that may come to fruition shortly. I am also talking with Kevtxx about other avenues but all is not lost, and you guys are most certainly not forgotten.

I am very sorry for getting your hopes up and having to put it on hold for a short while (dont think for a second that i am giving up though).

Regards
James

PS: how do you feel about abs plastics?

Thats a bummer for you dude. What was the price just out of curiosity?

I don't personally care what they are made of as long as they are safe and of course affordable.

if you have a 3d cad model, what about using a 3d printing service ? I'm just testing this one here http://www.shapeways.com

For all which want a quick, easy and cheap solution, use the shorter RC8 stacks, they work pretty well without the secondary throttle plate
and offer about 3-4 HP starting at around 6000 RPM including torgue gains . No gains under 6000 like with the DVS but they do cost
only 2.5 Euros each and thats what i would call best bang for the buck. With secondary plates you will loose power, so only do this mod
if you have removed them .

James still has some other options to get the cost down, so watch this space. He does have some local names for 3d printing, they are not cheap to 3D print.

Where can you buy rc8 intakes for £5 a pair? They cost us almost 40 aus dollars. But I will investigate to combine both as the rc8 intakes were similar to the VS items that I was looking at doing (but would expect an extra 3hp over the rc8 VS)... Cost may be dooable

I expect this can be done easily at home.

Just need to find a smaller diameter longer stack and bond it in place with the 3 fin idea.

Bingo. DVS.

I know that oversimplified but guys have been putting dual stacks on bikes for decades so should be do'able.

61241040000  INTAKE TRUMPET
Price: £1.80 (Inc VAT at 20%) each.............here in the UK.

No probs MR Z,
thanks for trying and for keeping on trying.
Ive no probs what there made out of but abs would be fine.

Regarding the Shorter RC8 stacks,its been said that you gain power above 6000rpm but do yoy lose anything below ?

I would imagine the part that actually connects to the throttle bodies is the most expensive bit to produce isn't it James? Does the RC8 one look anything like what you were designing?

Edit: I actually just read your post above

is there any loss of low rpm power? as fitting longer or shorter stacks normally just moves the torque curve up or down, ie you gain higher up but loose down low

All good apart from i cant get any coz i decided to be super cool and different and fitted pods so new stacks will need new pods and the chances are they'll do bugger all with out an airbox.

I'll stick to being cool with my shitty BHP figure then.

it is not the combination of Highscores package which makes the RC8 stacks work, i understand he wants to sell stuff
and we had already endless discussions in the German forum about his conclusions.
If you remove the secondary throttle butterfly you will gain no matter if you use a Remus, Arka header or standard, if
add the RC8 stacks you will gain more. It is as simple as that.
Of course combining a proper airbox with a different exhaust header, butterflies removed, RC8 stacks and a proper
custom mapping will be the best solution. Thats what Highscores dynocharts show, because he wants to sell the
complete package, but that is nothing new ...
New is only that the RC8 stacks can work and we can only thank the guys who spend endless hours on the dyno to actually
proove the modifcations. Thanks to the internet this can be shared and hopefully not everybody wants to max
out his bank account. Highscores airbox is basically based on a desing posted in this forum as well as the DNA Airbox.
So when you go for dyno time take the stacks with you, test them out and if you are not happy you lost 5 Euros.

Great info, I have organised a set of RC8 stacks today.

I will do back to back dyno runs to see the gains & losses between a standard SD & RC8 stack. I will also T up with James to get his inner stack fitted to measure the gains from a Dual stack using the RC8 stacks.

Does anyone know the dimensions (hight and width) of the SD trumpets? Can't be arsed to take bike apart to measure the figures.

Cheers

A picture says more than thousand words:





The blue base run is from a SD with open air box, race can, Remus-header and dialed in fuel injection with 2nd plates installed. The green graph shows the benefit by removing solely the plates at this bike. The red graph shows the improvement by installing RC8-stacks onto the the throttle body.

This mod shortens the intake tract by 20mm. So not only peak torque shifts from 6700 to 7200, but the whole pattern of torque is shifted to the right, to higher rpm. This is not unexpected, when shortening the intake. But what seems curious, is that huge gain, the short RC8-stacks produce, at the very bottom of the engine range around 3000 rpm.
The explanation: Obviously with the short stacks the engine harmonics changed to a higher order, probably from the third to the fourth.This wave has not the energy of a 3rd-order-harmonic, but the advantage to arive more often within the engine range and works now even around 3000-3500.

In the range between 3500 and peak torque at 7200 with short stacks advantages and disadvantages of high-order- and low-order-harmonic are balanced pretty nicely, so there are no substantial gains and losses, just a clear visible different graph pattern.

This dyno runs have been made on the same day, same bike, same dyno and operator. So removing that 2nd plates and installing RC8-stacks should by good to release +6HP. That mod works independently, which exhaust system is installed. I have checked another SD with stock headers, the effect was pretty the same
But it is also evident, that this mod shows its best performance in the higher rpm range. Therefore its is also no surprise, that an exhaust header, tuned especially for this range, shows an even better gain, when combined with hat new harmonics by the RC8-stacks.
The Remus-header is an example for such a lay out. So it is no wonder but a matter of physics, that this header performs so nicely with that new intake trumpet ( And it has nothing to do with the fact, that I have designed this Remus-pipe, indeed it is a great luck that things match so nicely).

Highscore

@kevxtx and @highscore

Thank you both for sharing usefull information and bringing the Superduke community to new horizons !

How do the Akra titanium full system headers compare to the Remus?

Interesting info and thanks for sharing dude.

On the subject of low run injection moulding tools.

I know several companies in the UK that specialise in rapid prototype tooling which I've done business with over the years. Mostly it's to product low runs of sample packaging, caps bottles, dispense mechanisms etc. The reason they are cost effective is that they often have limited cooling capacity, are designed for hand operation rather than high speed automation and will wear out quickly. They are really slow and inefficient to mould huge volumes of samples but are ideal for making hundreds, (rather than thousands or millions).

If anyone our there has a CAD model of one of these velocity stacks that require moulding I would be happy to get a few quotes for a low run, single cavity tool. Most of these companies will take a look at the component design and suggest a few ways to design the tool. Different ways will have different cost implications and advantages. Where they choose to inject the material will have an effect on component strength.

The guys I have worked with are very good. Omega does BMW prototype moulding for their engine components, last time I was up there they had a new water pump they were building for them. They can inject with any number of polymers and materials, super high heat resistant stuff, nylon, ABS, all sorts.
And check out this little video of a hand assembled tool from Omega:-
http://www.omega-plastics.co.uk/rapid-prototype-tooling

And this is another company I've worked with.

http://www.geminiprototyping.co.uk/default.html

Well i have been brainstorming and may have come up with a viable solution... I will let you know as soon as it starts to come together.

along the lines of a modified rc8 intake (pet hate of the standard intakes which is what led me to the dvs in the first place... poor design and can be improved significantly) with a DVS... more pricing is being looked into now

Big thanks to Highscore!

I just bought a pair from here.

They are usually very good service.

http://shop.jimaimracing.co.uk/acatalog ... 09-12.html

Just ordered mine from Jimaim

I bet all these dealers are wondering wtf is going on

Just had a call from Jim aim motorcycles saying that they would have to order the stacks in but the price was wrong, apparently they should be about a £10 , anyway they are going to honour the online price.

Ha ha,

I just had a missed call from them while I was out at lunch.

Just had a call from Jim Aim regarding my order, they were very curoius as to why so many were being ordered 10 sets so far this morning!

Duke and Highscore sure do have a lot to answer for!

$7 here in OZ I'm surprised!

This just shows what a great site this is .......got mine ordered this morning.....

40 For the pair of SD trumpets... 20 In Brisbane for the rc8 pair.

Team homo are rip offs withe the worst service imaginable.

So I refuse to use them... Even if it costs me more to import them

me either after I had to replace my waterpump seal at my own cost while under warranty... Otherwise it would have taken over six months to fix (I knew what was wrong but they reckoned it was the radiator cap, then the pipes, etc...)... Then charged me a fortune for the parts.

i think i may have missed a beat here . can someone help out a brotha ..

Are these stacks everyone's talking about now just twist on a standard SD ? In other words we're putting SDR stacks on the Standard SD ?

Even though the SDR has bigger throttle bodies the SDR stacks will fit right on Standard ?

thnx

Indy and I pick up a mill/lathe tomorrow... All hope is not lost gets. Some fab work and testing to come. Klink... Email me some payment details and I will take you up on the rc8 stacks for modification and testing .

Headed to the stealer tomorrow!

Does anyone know whether they pulled just the secondary plates or the shafts as well? I still have not pulled my shafts out.

Thanks.

The RC8R intake trumpets are available here in the US for $5 ea from Munn Racing outta Texas. I just ordered 4 for a buddy and myself. Told him to be expecting a few calls.

http://www.munnracing.com/

P/N - 61241040000

Can see how this will help as it will increase the distance from the mouth of the trumpet to the top of the airbox reducing airflow restriction.

John

this has nothing to do with the distance to the airbox the effect is the same even without the airbox, it is all about resonance in the intake you can actually calculate the optimal stack /trumpet length for a given RPM range, but theory and reality is often different. Lot of people believed you need longer trumpets to get Superduke running well, myself included. So actually it is a surprise that the shorter ones work so well without the secondary butterfly.

Sorry, can't answere that one as the only year the SDR was imported into the US was in 08.

Checked both 2010 and 2012 RC8R fiche and both are the same part number: 61241040000

You can check the fiche yourself: http://www.munnracing.com

Another resource: http://www.ktm-parts.com/pdf/KTM2012/20 ... C8_R_w.pdf

08 Superduke R: http://www.ktm-parts.com/pdf/KTM2008/2008_990SDR.pdf

Correct !

Part no. 61241040000 is the one to order/buy!

At my dealers system they show just as the RC8 ones.

Changing and testing must wait due to temp (-12 to -14 Celsius in the morning!) and too much snow at the moment !

Gear4 just called and it seems Austria KTM have run out of RC8 stacks Not sure when they will be back in stock but I'm thinking its going to be a couple of weeks at least.

Jim Aim emailed this morning and said they expect delivery Monday/Tuesday. No mention of a price hike either.......which they can't really do after advertising and selling at the onsite price.

Ktm must be wondering wtf is going on.

Highscore will be laughing his ass off if this is a wind up and 50 sheep have rushed out and raped the RC8 stack stock.

It is not hard to bring the KTM-factory out of stock with this RC8-stack. When the RC8 came out in 2008 I had a chance to took a view onto its stacks. At this time I had before tuned some 2008-SD-R-bikes using the same 52-mm-TB.
The SD-R uses the same velocity stack as the "common" SDs displacing the the 48mm TB, because the larger type is just a "big bore" version of the same TB mold.
I checked the price for the RC8-trumpet, it was - like in our days - close to nothing, so I decided to order 10 pcs for further testing with the SD. I received 9 units - and this was the whole stock of the KTM-factory during this early period of RC8-production.
Looks like now as a bad guy has bought all the factory stock too.

Of course I have tested that short RC8-stack at several Sds and SD-Rs. In each case that 20mm shorter stacks dis not work: peak power at the top remained unchanged, but there was a lack in torque over the lower part of the range: no advantage using this stacks. So this stacks rested since 2008 in an edge of my workshop - until this January.
During this early testings the 2nd. butterfly kept in place, just the stacks have been changed. But this year I made the testings without the butterfly and suddenly - wow. The effect was really unexpected for me. And this was not a single-shot-wonder, I have installed until now that RC8 stacks to 3 SD-bikes and in each case this mod - 2nd flies out & RC8-stacks on - was good for a power increase of 6-7 HP. So I am telling here no fake stories, it really looks like as this mod could be a worthwhile one.

Well, it is not my intention to hijack this thread with my own stories, so I prefer to start a new one. Just two things:
(1) That three promising testings all have been performed with a "common" SD with 48mm-TB. The question is, what will happen at a 2008-SD-R with larger valves, larger intake duct, lager 52mm-TB and different cam timing? This question needs further investigation.
(2) Retarding air box design: The rule of thumb is that the distance of an intake trumpet to a wall upside should be at least trumpet diameter. But this rule is only valid for the "common" situation, where the bell diameter is the same as the diameter of the intake tract. In the case of the SD-engine things are different. Here the bore-diameter of the intake duct is 48mm up to primary throttle, controlled by the throttle grip. From that diameter upward the bore of the intake tract enlarges continuously up to some + 60mm at the end of the trumpet bell mouth.

Well I am the creator of this:



My cheap and simple air box lacks that rule of thumb by far.. So it was essential for me before starting production of this box to check its performance. What could be a better reference for such a test as testing the box against intake trumpets within the pure air, real "atmosphere" with nothing over them (fuel tank lifted)? The cover of this air box has just a (good) finger distance to the trumpets. But nevertheless it did not suffer and made the same performance as "nothing on" at the bells:


By at 2012-02-11

This is the last test regarding this problem I have performed this January. I hope you agree with me that the difference is neglectable since the price for filtered air is unavoidably around 15mm water and 15mbar restriction cause therefore something like a loss a loss of 1-1,5% in performance compared to real free breathing intakes.

Hey, It is not intention to hijack this thread. More information will come at a new place. But give me some time.

Highscore

Good info guys. This thread just keeps getting better!

The TuneECU thread on here is very useful. As is the pdf from their site. It's not difficult to get your head around. Not sure if anyone has done an ignition advance map with TuneECU for the SMR A few more ponies might appear there.

My understanding here is that the SDR stacks are an ALTERNATIVE solution to getting better resonance.

I'd rather have Mr.Z32's dual velocity stacks when they are ready to manufacture, (because the effort that has gone into them and because they appeal to me more and I think they will show a better power gain), but in the short term the SDR stacks sound like something to play with. At such a small price they must be worth a try. For me though the big issue is that I would want to remove the secondaries and shafts at the same time, (currently running the MH modified flies), and then I feel that I would want to get another custom map done. Still running the PC3 so this means a £150 dyno run). But I will do it this spring I think.

Unless the dual stacks are imminent.

RC8/R not SDR stacks, surely...........

James was alread onto the lower stack mod, I had the Solid works design a month ago.

In theroy the RC8 stacks looks like it needs a better lip to draw the air over the stack, James has already worked a plan for this so watch this space.

I'm also running a CNC version of the stacks and am very happy.
I also have the carbon DVS to insert.
The only reason we don't have Dyno charts is because my bike didn't rock up. Sorry MrZ

[quote="MrZ32"

Unless the dual stacks are imminent.[/quote]
Before the rc8 stack thing was realised I already had a model of a different intake of similar height (and was being priced up) but of far superior design to work with the dvs.. Alas it was all to expensive. I now have a lathe and mille and will do them up myself.[/quote]

Dont meen to come acrooss pushy but av you any idea when you will have these stacks ready to ship
One Eager Beaver

Interesting stack from eBay:
http://www.ebay.at/itm/Powerblade-Trich ... 4162a5e7bf

They wrote it is from KTM Sommer..

Found a German forum too about it:
http://www.ktmforum.eu/forum3/wbb/990-s ... owerblade/

Don't know how they coould be effective with a butterfly set up. They are very popular with the flat slide Kehin carb crowd as they butt right up against the slide. This reduces/eliminates turbulance at partial throttle openings by preventing incomming flow from hitting the slide, being deflected downward and creating rotors in the rest of the incomming air.

As ktmjunkie wrote, they take out the jerkiness of the LC8 engine, the effect is given but not so impressive and only with a complete standard setup of the airbox. Highscore had some runs in comparision with his airbox, butterflies still in, and there was no effect or better, it was a kind of contraproductive with the open flow airbox.

If someone wants to give it a try, I have a set lying arround.

Next will be the removal of the flies and shafts (allready done but not tested) and hopefully the DVS of MrZ and may be going to give the Rottweiler airbox a chance .

I just fitted the RC8 stacks. Just in case anyone else comes up against the same issues as I - the fit is not quite the same as the old stacks. There are two clips at the base which slide under a flange on the throttle bodies when you turn the stacks on. The RC8 clips are a bit higher so they don't allow the stacks to turn far enough for them to spring up on the other side. This is a big problem as they need to lock on to prevent them coming off when the engines running. I had to trim them down by about half a mm and put a bit of a radius on the edges to act as a lead in and out - otherwise they get stuck on and it's hard to get them off again. Hard to describe in words but you'll understand if you are fitting them.

It might be to do with the Motobox being a bit thicker than the standard airbox base but the old stacks fitted fine.

Not been out for a run yet - just started raining. HM Racing said that they wouldn't effect my fueling map so I'm just going to see what the difference feels like to ride with - if I can notice anything different.

Bic, and anyone else that's installed the RC8R trumpets, have you noticed any decrease in low-end or mid-range power?

I've got them sitting here on my bench but don't have time to install them before I take off. Will be putting them in when I return (2nd week of April). Just want to make sure there is no seat-o-the pants loss down in the lower parts of the RPM range.

Thanks, John

Looks like stock stacks and 2nd flies removed is the best option out of those runs.
Nice comparison runs for removing 2nd flies

I know I noticed a bit of difference when I removed the 2nd flies. It seemed snappier, so to speak.

have you made any headway on the dvs mrz32

The RC8 stacks definitely give more HP up top, my bike hits the rev limiter a lot quicker now, I also have my DVS fitted to the RC8 stacks, the bike feels real good all over, the DVS still need some tweaking to fit the RC8 stacks better.

I will get it on the Dyno soon to see the gains.

cheers for that kev, why has your throttle bodies got the flies back in them? and whats in the three pipes and looks like makeup

They are my spare set of complete SD throttle bodies that I am going to get bored out by +2mm with a +2mm bigger throttle plate for my next mod, the SDR throttle bodies are to big for my standard inlet valve size.

The 3 pipes that look like makeup are cats, 2 of them are my spare 100 flow cats for my modified Leovince pipes, the other bigger one is a spare 100 flow cat. The cats have been designed so I can install & remove them in 10 min when I want to, they are slip in & out cats. I don't like the smelly exhaust smell on my work cloths.

The kat will only work optimal when the SAI is working since the kats need extra oxygen for the chemical reaction.

sai on the overrun around 4k rpm... With kevs mapping the sai is not really necessary as it doesn't run stupidly rich like the akra map

Hey James did you get my Email I sent you on Tuesday?

Yeah mate... When are you going? Looking forward to seeing the results. I reckon after the modification work (before sticking in the dvs) that another 3hp is available over the standard rc8 stack.

After some very much appreciated help from Klink I will have 5 pairs of rc8 stacks to play with and about 500 bucks worth of machine grade abs rod... Drop by sometime soon. Am starting to make up the tooling for the stacks. Thiss will be enough to make a couple of test stacks;)

Now have the lathe, mill, mechanical bandsaw, the linisher... All ready to roll... Just need a press now.

any updates mrz32, I fitted the rc8 stacks today the bike somehow seems louder more induction noise, or maybe a bit of wax fell out after my shower

You can get away with the rc8 stacks once the 2ndry flies are removed because once they are removed you gain an extra 20mm of intake tract, hence why you can use the rc8 intakes which are roughly 20mm shorter than standard. In theory you should lose performance if you were to add rc8 stacks with secondary flies still in... Obviously there is more to it but typing with my left hand is frustrating

From my Dyno runs I could see by only removing the 2nd fles & shafts the A/F ran richer because of less air speed. Dyno results from the same bike, same Dyno, same RON & fuel manufacture, I have taken the average A/F ratio of all the runs & posted the average results for each run, no map change.

2nd flies removed in RED same fuel map as BLUE run BLUE = Akra map loaded, Akra map was tweaked with Tune ECU using Dynojets Wideband commander 1 before Dyno testing.



By fitting the RC8 stacks only the A/F ratio ran leaner.

RC8 Stack in RED same fuel map as BLUE run Blue run Akra map loaded + custom PCV map, the only thing changed was the standard stacks were removed & RC8 stacks fitted.

That's a great test to post mate. Well done, I know it's a bit of a hassle to actually fiddle about with hardware when your'e in the dyno shop.

Just a thought though - if you fitted the RC8 stacks AND removed the secondary flies I wonder if the AF mix would be about right, ie cancel each other out? I have/ had a perfect map for the last few years but fitted the RC8 stacks just to see if I could tell a difference, (so I'm probably running a bit lean). I haven't taken out the secondaries because I believed it would really need remapping to be safe. But this makes me wonder if I'd be better off taking them out anyway - even if I don't get round to a remap for a few months.

From what it looks that combination should run a little less lean then the current mapping in lower revs so I guess you'll be fine.

@ Kev,
could you post the power/torque output of those runs as well? I'd like to see what difference it makes dispite the A/F being a little off and how much this A/F being off influence the output in the end.
Is there any idea when the short DVS will be tested?

Hi Kev

On your last dyno run with RC8 stacks did they change the fueling much?

I have installed my RC8 stacks and it feels like its running weak at lower revs (seat of the pants dyno)

His previous post shows the change in A/F after just fitting the RC8 stacks (without changing the map).

glad you posted up the a/f kev, I had my bike set up during the winter with a custom map but then decided to try the rc8 stacks only to find it running poor I first thought it running rich so took them out it seemed to fix it but it developed a flat spot in the mid range, I tried the rc8 stacks again today and sure enough it runs worse, the only thing I have done to the map was to try and load it onto the computer so unless I have doent somthing to it I cant understand why it is now running so lean, after it was mapped with a pcv it was great, I cant find any leaks in the exhaust and no cracks, its looking like another trip to the dyno

Ok, please tell us lame SD owners if this RC8 mod is on the "good mod" list or not. Should I wait for these dvs stacks to get made? Im so confused. Seriously. I have been reading this thread since it started and Im not really sure what the outcome is so far.
Please help a lame guy understand!

RC8 stacks are cheap, smash em on if you want but MrZ has a few more ponies to let out if he can stop breaking bones!!

Just FYI, RC8 stacks are on international backorder in the US with an expected date of 5/29/12.

ktmjunkie, take a look at this post: viewtopic.php?p=166000#p166000

I'm another reason for the shortage. I have MH box and secondary flies removed (shafts still in). I installed the RC8 stacks and went straight to the track not having riden the bike for two months due to travel for work so cannot really say what diiference the stacks made. The bike pulled well off the corners so doubt there was any loss of low to mid. I did manage to knock a second or so of my lap times but I'm chocking that up to some suspension modifications I'd made (slightly stiffer springs to increase ground clearance). If the A/F ratio does change it'll be minor so wouldn't sweat it.

I say take your bike for a blast on a known route (25-30 miles or so), go back to your garage and install the RC8 stacks then do the exact same loop and report back your seat O pants impression.

John

I am going to swap back to my standard SD stacks this weekend until I finally get around to removing my secondary flies and shafts and get a remap done. My custom map for the engine before was already very good with about 126 bHP, great torque and a perfect A/F line. I wanted to see if there was a difference with the RC8 stacks but to be honest I couldn't tell from just road riding and it concerns me that riding with them without a new map might be running lean through some of the rev range - with no real benefit.

It is not my intention to inflate this thread with my own stories so I prefer to satrt a new one

Highscore

MrZ I'm between the latest to confirm my interest... I have the potential to ask you from one to ten dvs for a lot of friends of mine with their SDs... both with motobox, DNA bix or OE airbox...
Just waiting when they are available....

Just got back from first street ride (did a track day 2 weeks ago) after RC8 trumpet installation and there is definitely a substantial increase in mid to top-end HP/Torque. No loss of low-end as far as my seat O pants can tell. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't experienced it for myself.

Cannot keep front end down in 2nd gear now. Had to tug on the bars @ 6K to get it to come up in second previously. Now I have to lean forward in a futile effort to try and keep it from comming up in 2nd @ 6K.

Definitely money ($15) well spent!

@ Lowrance: What else is modified on your SD ?

my sdr needed mapped big time with them fitted it ran realy poor from idle

Mine runs great from idle to redline.

08 SD, MH box, secondary flies removed (shafts still in), PCIII USB Custom Dual map, SAS, O2, Leos, Carrozzerias, 520 kit (stock gearing), etc, etc, etc.

Hi all... Any news?

The cast comes off in two weeks... Everything is ready to go for the the finalised pieces and 10 pairs once final proofing has been completed.

good news!

More available in the future?

Forgive the noobie question, but what improvement does removing the secondary butterflies accomplish?

I see the MotoHooligan offers a reshaped butterfly, but I have seen no reference to anyone using them
Everyone just seems to take them out, sometimes including the shaft.
Assume more flow, and better mid to top end. What is the cost to low end, or around town performance?

Tried both/always ways (MH, removed and secondarys and flys removed).....its not even close MUCH better without just cannot tell some folk

RC8 inlets ...made much bigger difference than I would have thought.......so waiting for Mrz32 with baited breath

Is it mandatory to contact a dealer to purchase the RC8 inlets or is there somewhere online I can get them from (US)?

no more news?

After a bit of a spill with a dealer in CA, my final RC8 stack is being shipped and should be here soon. My only concern is if my map is up for the task or not. I'm currently running a custom TuneECU map created by MrZ and the bike pulls strong, but its a bit skittish in the lower revs which I'm sure the new stacks will only make worse. Is anyone running a map that is in the TuneECU archives that they know for sure is handling the new stacks well? My mods are in my sig if more info is needed.

fitted the rc stack and a stage three dna airbox and a remap and to tell the truth it felt a bit flat below 7000 rpm with very little gain after and all before what I now think is the pcv packing in, goin to get in touch with dynojet again, last time they were not helpfull at all, anyway I am looking forward to mrz32 dvs going into production, if I dont set fire to the bike first

hmm... what's this?










they will be going through dyno testing when I have money again.

I will have one spare pair though

me me me me me !!!

if you find another set.....me me me me me

glad to see these back on the go mr zee

No, I'm Spartacus..........

LOL

I'm Spartacus

Looking good mate, we will catch up soon.

I'm Grendel.

Is it on TV over Christmas?
Feel the need to watch it now

I know I'm new here, but if they add to the overall effect of the whole airbox / torque experience - put me down for a set!

Nice.

Put me down for a set also, about to purchase a Rottweiler Intake. Would be nice to have these so I can remove the flies also and get a tune all at once.

who has a rotty airbox in bris to check that they will fit?

I do mate. You've offered plenty of advice to me over the last couple of months so happy to help out if I can.

Only catch is I leave for Bali on the 14th and wont be back and free again till the 27th.

Have you cracked the Motobox hight issue Aaron?

No problemo bud.

Maybe I can catch up with ya via pm or for a cofee next week to discuss before the honeymoon? I dropping the bike at Procycle Dyno when I leave on the 13th so the more info I can give him the better (and less cost to me)