Is the RC8 genuinely better than the SD?

I am giving some serious thought to running only one road and track bike.
I've tried before but the SD is just not going to cut it for me on the road as i have to ride in all weathers and over longish distances.
I know a number of people on here have bought RC8s after owning SDs so the question is this: is the RC8 a better track bike and is it a better road bike?
Why?

Pm sent

It is probably a better road and track bike, right up to the point where you bin it. Plenty of us have had a cheap crash with an SD but there arent any cheap crashes with faired bikes.

True.

IMHO :

- it's a better track bike for fast tracks
- it's a better bike to go around highways

- it's a worst bike on the real world ( because of speed bumps, pot holes ) and twisty/slower tecnhical roads.
- it's a worst bike on the real world because of the more expensive costs ( crashing included )

Ummm Yes and No!

IMO the Superduke is more fun on track but the rc8 is quicker, you don't get blitzed on the straights so much. If you watch some of my videos from crashfest, you'll see me riding with The Duke on his SDR. His is quicker around the nadgery hall bends and the mountain but the RC8 is lightning everywhere else.

With regard to Lukes comment about crashability, when I dropped mine at Cadwell it cost me a grand total of £0.00 !. however I was obviously very lucky!

Given the choice and if I had the money I would have both ( like that jammy git Cerec1 )

I loved my Superduke, it was the best bike I have ever owned. Still getting to know my RC8..... The RC8 is very hardcore on road but it can be calmed down a bit.

And for anyone else with negative comments, don't knock it till you try it!

Road = SM = 8" of Travel
Track /Road = SD = 6" of Travel
Track = RC8= 4" of travel better brakes, Planted front, far more grunt 12mph more speed (on Almeria long Straight ..but still gets monstered by latest jap 1000) good on the road apart from bumps and bad road surface

I had my GSXR 750 before buying my SD. I racked up quite a few miles on it road and track. I installed Helibars on it early on and at my height of riding it, could do 400 mile days (slab and twisties) without feeling it the next day.

Before buying my SD, I test rode an RC8 (not R). I'd read all the hype about what a comfortable RR it was. I call BS. After 20 min, I wanted my GSXR back. It might be heresy to say on this site, but the GSXR 750 does everything better than the standard RC8. The GSXR is faster, handles better, and rides better (street or track) and doesn't cook your legs in traffic like the RC8. Dump the extra money you'll spend on the RC8 on Ohlins 30mm fork cartridges and a TTX shock and OMFG - the bike is a weapon.

So why the eff am I on the SD.net board spouting the virtues of a GSXR 750? Because the SD is by FAR a better street bike IMO. The riding position is more comfortable than any SS - even my GSXR with Helibars. Its easier to maneuver in the city and while splitting traffic. It's not as top heavy as a SS so its easier to ride at parking lot speeds. (It doesn't want to suddenly take a nap on its side as you roll up to the gas pump. During my test ride, the guy in front of me dumped the other RC8 test bike in the parking lot. ) It's far more nimble. You can put it anywhere in the lane and carve through or adjust mid corner without major issues. Yes, fighting the wind blast on the freeway isn't fun, but that is the big trade off. The other trade off is that it won't hit 170 mph.

If I want to go fast (>120 mph) I'll grab the GSXR. Its easier to deal with at speed. (The fairings make it easier to move around on the bike at speed.) The GSXR has become my track bike. But, for most road work, the SD gets the nod. I suspect that if you had the two, you'd gravitate toward the same conclusion. Flame on. (Its OK. I have my Nomex suit handy).

Edit: FWIW, I don't think either bike is the perfect compromise. I'm still looking for that bike. Let me know if you find it.

Having recently gone from the SD to an RC8 - and I hardly ever go to the track...
The RC8 is faster, period and I actually find it a lot easier to thread through traffic than the SD with its wide bars.
It is however, much less comfortable and for me so far less fun (which is the main reason, aside from commuting that I ride a bike). That's because the roads I ride for fun are lumpy and bumpy and the SD handles that sort of thing much better. The RC8 may improve once I've had the suspension fettled, but I think it will still be comparatively rock hard.
Otherwise I love the look of it, it's not a souless jap missile and (so far) it works reliably. Have I done the right thing going from the SD to the RC8? Not sure yet it's still too new and I haven't adapted to it yet. The first month I had the SD I seriously wondered if I'd made a mistake, so we'll see.
But if you want a twin and want to go fast buy an RC8. I had a ZX12R before the SD and the RC8 feels even faster than that....

i.m.h.o Its about what you get out of it and personal improvement - its irrelevent what you are on.

No offence intended but If you went out at cadwell on a rc8r/Yamaha M1 (or whatever bike you choose to mention) with someone properly quick on a standard sd you wouldnt know which way they had gone - but an rc8r might just make you quicker relative to yourself down the straights.

Tank range is 120 miles max. More like 100 on average. While I was at Pro-Dev a bloke said someone he knew an owner who can't get more than 60 out of a tank. God knows how he uses quite so much on the road.

Pete I'm sure you're right. Its all about the rider of this I have no doubt. I have a grand total of 15 trackdays under my belt, I'm pretty sure you have a lot more experience than me. So if I'm only 5 seconds a lap slower that makes me very happy.

I picked up my rc8 precisely 10 days before cadwell and hadn't ridden a pure sportsbike for 5yrs previous to this.

It took a very special bike to get me off my superduke and the rc8 tempted me this time.

BLB, my point is really, if you can apply the same level of commitment and confidence riding the 8 as you did on the sd, once you get used to it you WILL go quicker.

Does it matter ?? if your quicker on an rc8 if you are not riding any better ?

I'm not sure, I've skipped Judo tonight as my neck / arm has been very uncomfortable this week.

Funny that Tripod Dave and I had a little chat about Donny while at crashfest. Although I've only been there once in the last ten years I suggested that it felt almost like cheating as I was just feeding up gears with the throttle pinned while pointing the old girl in the right direction through a lot of the track. I knew that guys I was passing on Jap IL4s were actually having to be more skillful.

I think we agreed that it's one track where the sd feels a bit underpowered.

Dave, you need to check the RC8 can be fitted with ultimate performance booster.
If it can't, you don't want one.

http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz14 ... -00120.jpg

I'm not sure I could handle the power that that mod bestows! With great power comes great responsibility.
One of the things that really made me wonder as to how much better an RC8 really is was comparing the lap times of the Superduke cup against the RC8 challenge. Around Cadwell and Donington the fastest lap times were within a couple of seconds of each other.

I think I'm going to persevere with my SD for a while longer.
My plan for this winter is to:
1. Fit either a GSXR K5/6 or Ducati 916 top fairing and seat unit and have two versions: one with lights and the other in track mode with a view to taking the SD out on the road.
2. Gas flow and skim the heads and (if I can) fit SDR valves.
3. Paint the whole bike Candy Sun God Orange (Lamborghini Orange)

This is my personal philosophy on the different types of bikes and what they should be used for. I was talking bikes with a friend of mine and he said he wanted to get his first bike soon. I asked what kind he was looking at and he replied "probably an R6". I asked if he was ever going to track the bike and he said "no I just want a commuter". So I asked him:

"Would you ever take a Harley or a cruiser to the track? No, that would be dumb right? So why would you ride a race replica bike on the street?"

As far as the street is concerned I'll only ever ride supermoto's/street fighters. I think it's a little silly that some people ride super sports as a method of point A to point B. Can it be done? Yes. Do some enjoy it? I'm sure. But riding a super sport on the street is like having a lion as a house cat. It's possible but the bike will be almost completely out of it's element. As sexy as the RC8 is, I wouldn't touch one unless I knew I was going to track it for a good chunk of it's life, maybe ride it on the street every now and again. The RC8 and the SD are two different bikes with two different purposes and should be treated as such. My buddy's R1 is faster than my SD, but he can only ride for about 30 minutes at a time before he has to pull over and pretend to get gas. Which is the better bike? Depends what you're after.

Just my personal opinion.

My thoughts for what they are worth.

My last bike was a gixer 1000 K5. This had just over 160 RWHP, weighed less than an SD, great brakes, handled like a dream, was not uncomfortable (I rode 400+ miles in a day several times without problems) and being two tone black it was also beautiful to look at. Sounds like I wanted to marry it doesn't it

Thing is that in the end I hardly rode it on the road at all because it was just astonishingly boring below three figure speeds and with my low boredom threshold if I did take it out I would be in 'go to prison' territory almost immediately I left the village. Yes it kept me comfortably in the fast group at tracks compensating for my modest talent with brute force and composure but I was actually beaten round Silverstone GP (one of the fastest and most open circuits in the world) by Dave Woods on a Superduke. Proof if any were needed that at our level it's talent and not equipment that makes the difference.

I did consider the RC8 when I switched from the K5 but in the end I would have had the same issues on a more expensive and (slightly) less capable machine so I couldn't see the point and went for the SD instead.

I bought the SD to slow down and have more fun on the roads and now that I have got used to it I enjoy myself more and ride more often as a result. I have no idea how well I will go with it on track but if it's dry I'm going to wobble round Donington on the 8th and find out.

So to address your question directly the answer is both yes and no. Yes the K5 was better in every measurable way to the SD (power, speed etc etc) as the RC8 is to the SD but no as in reality these positives make the road riding experience worse in many ways and the cheeky fun of the naked SD more than compensates for any losses in other areas.

If you need weather and wind protection for work travel why not get a cheap car instead and save the two wheel stuff for amusement only?

The way i see it Dave you have too many bikes, OK, thats fact

Are you trying to get your vast collection down to a single bike or a single road/track bike plus your other toys!?

If all other toys are going then the way i see it is you still have room for a dedicated trackday bike (the modified SD) plus a single road bike, in your case i see an SMT - the perfect road weapon of choice that with a few choice mods could still be husled round a track should you wish to do your foreign riding trips!

Do you still use your road bike as a company car?

Oh Dave, if we are in the same group at Donny. You will very quickly make your mind up when you fly past me on your Superduke!

if you want to be FASTER get an RC8R. the 2011 rides fantastic. excellent fueling and better suspension than previous years (according to the rags). the transmission shifts better than anything I've ridden. however I think you need to upgrade to ohlins. it's so much easier to ride faster on the track or the twisties. that my riding buddies commented they had to push it in order to follow me as compared to my SDR.

the superduke is a better street bike though. the limits are lower but fun factor is high. did I tell you the RC8 gets HOT? you won't like riding the RC8 in the city on a warm day. you'll need full leathers to insulate you from the engine heat. you can fit a second fan on the SD easily. on the RC8 there's very little room to allow a second fan.

on the track and a wide open, twisty road you want the RC8. ask yourself how often you'll ride in that environment.

speaking of lack of wind protection, i was coming back from Charlottesville here in Va and had about 70 miles of freeway to do. it was around 10:00pm and traffic was sparse, so i would pass a series of cars at 70-80mph and wind open the throttle till i caught up with the next set, slow back down, pass, repeat. i was seeing speeds of 130-40mph between packs. i had my tankbag on and let me tell you i was soo hard to stay on the bike even flattened against the bag as low as i could get! everytime there would be a rise, or bump, the bike would drop away from me and id be in the wind. to make it worse i was trying to keep a lite touch on the grips so i wouldnt telegraph bad things to the front end. it was a blast but after doing this like 8x i figured it was just a matter of time till i ran into a speed trap! after that 80 felt like i was sitting still.

Is an RC8 a better bike than a SD? Answer Yes

Is an RC8 more fun than a SD? Answer No

IMO, if it scares you sometimes you enjoy owning it more, for me pre 2005 there is lots of good stuff, since its all downhill, power yes, speed yes, but all too clinical to be fun anymore..............

So for me the SD will be a better bike

I finally discussed it with SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed) and the SD and GTR are staying for now (at least another year) so it will be an autumn of modifying the SD.

I've just bought GSXR1000 K5 plastics for the SD.
I'll get Kev to do a better job than with the R1 plastics (I forced him to just bodge the job) and get the whole bike (tank and all) painted in metallic orange.
I shall gas flow and skim the heads and fit the high lift cams I've got to see what gains we get and then if necessary I'll buy a pair of CP high compression pistons from Tornado and seee how far that gets us. TBH if I can get a genuine 130bhp at the rear wheel on Kev's dyno (which is the same as 138 on a Dynojet dyno) I will be happy as I recon that's just about enough for trackdays.

Is it better? Depends on what you want to do with it.

I had the opportunity to attend a KTM Ride_Orange track day last week, at Mid-Ohio. They had both the RC8 and SMR available to ride, Being my first track day, I opted to ride the SMR the first 20 minute session. It was a good way to familarize myself with the track and the mannerisms associated with this type of event. Mind you, I was in the novice class, as to be expected. The second session I went out on the RC8. Very foreign compared to the SMR and my SD. By the 3rd lap I started to gel with the RC8 but it still wasn't as fun as the SMR. My wrist were sore and my back didn't feel good after I got off the bike.
For the rest of the day (six sessions total) I rode the SMR. My lap times increased and I was holding my own against the RC8 riders in my group in the tight stuff. It came down to how much fun was I going to have on which bike. I am sure after a full day on the RC8 I would have liked it more than that second session. But the fun I was having riding the SMR and the stupid grin I couldn't remove from my face, after what seemed to me as some hot laps, was what I was there for. Regardless, the whole track day experience is something I am going to do again. How can you go wrong with new KTM's, fuel, several mechanics, fairly new tyres and unlimited instruction from some very qualified riders.
To me the RC8 is a purpose built track bike. If that's what you're after, you will not be disappointed. I'll stick with my SD but preferably an SMR.

RC8- drinks more petrol and costs more to insure..more to fix when crashed and servicing is dearer due to the fact they have to "undress" her everytime...

SDR anyday.


how often in real world terms do you go above 150 anyhow?

(before Luke gets in there....how often do i go above 30?)

I saw the print out from Cerec's RC8R dyno runs.
That motor is fan-flippin'-tastic.
It does not have a torque curve - it has a torque plateau and its mahoosive!
It may not make 180 - 190bhp at the rear wheel like a BMW but I swear that RC8 motor would have the beating of it everywhere except for right at the top end. Very. Very Impressive.