KTM based trackday 2012, Cadwell.

http://www.ktmforum.co.uk/general-discu ... 012-a.html

Right lads, i know you usually have Crashfest, but i'm going to arrange once again a KTM trackday.

If you rmemeber back to i think 2009 we had a cracker (even with the B&B/BBQ debarkle)...

So... Who fancies a bit of KTM fun ?

I'm expecting it to be Cadwell in 'summer' that's the height of the details at this stage.

Just had a long chat with MSV about this and first things first...

Woodland layout may or may not be viable.. he's going to look into it. The problem may be that physically moving the seperators in a timely fashion may not actually be possible. I did suggest that if it makes it more feasible they could take all sections to 18 mins (instead of 20) thus giving an extra 6 mins per 'break' to make it more possible ? I'm assuming we wouldn't have a major worry losing 2 mins ?

WE... well, i say 'we'... (i have asked the Boss (of KTM forum, not SD.net yet, but i will) if we can be 'we' ) have different ways of doing it, basically it can be completely out of the hands of MSV apart from giving us the tracks/medics/facilities.. which is a cost of XYZ, or we could have it completely organised and sorted by MSV which is a higher cost (unknown just yet how much more). I don't see us having a major problem getting our own instructors and briefing etc... i know we have camera guys who'd perform that function and i can also sort out tyre facilities/guy without too much complication.

The 2 stumbling blocks are as follows.
1. The price brackets go from June>Sept then from 1st Oct, they drop by a substantial ammount.
2. You can't have a weekend. Simple as that... in track day land 'we' basically don't exist so are bottom of the pile.

From my perspective i would prefer to go with Club MSV organisation, which means they foot the 'risk' of selling places, sort the ability to book via credit card and sort everything out. What it means if we don't do that is 'someone' has to find 40%, 40%, 20% (5 months before, 2 months before, 2 weeks before) to cover any costs. PLI (public liability insurance) seems to cost about £200 so isn't really a major facotr as far as i can tell in the overall equation.

Costing... well that's a toughie really isn't it. The costs if run by Club MSV would be more than if 'we' did it ourselves. Would also depend a lot on how many riders we could muster.

So... that's where we are at the moment with it all...

Any thoughts etc are much appreciated.

I don't understand what your meaning about moving stuff and 18mins? Are you talking about changing the track layout between sessions?

With the prices, could you not just go for late April or sometime in May if that's cheaper?

Either way I'm up for it. Kept plenty leave hours back for next year's trackdays.

Yes Viking, that's exactly what i'm talking about. The Supermoto boys want to run the 'woodland' track which means blocking off the start finish straight.

So, the prices are in and the details are here.

BAsically if 'we' wanted Club MSV to own the risk and run the trackday then the cost would come in at approx.
£7000 Mon-Thur in April
£8000 May-Sept Mon-Thur
£6000 Mon-Thur in Oct.

Fridays : £800 extra
Weekend : £2500 extra.

What we get for that is a full MSV run day, 42 bikes per group allowed (probably less for woodland group)

So, assuming we filled the groups, that' say 110 riders so coming in at a min of £70 a head and a max of £100 a head.

Let me know your thoughts and i can think about putting something into place for it.

No interest at all for a KTM only trackday ?

Good work Weeksy.

I'm sure interest will pick up in the New Year. Think its a little early to commit to things at present, I don't even know what I'm doing tomorrow let alone next year!

You're up against the traditional Crashfest which most of us budget for as you know, I for one can only afford a limited amount of days next year. It may be easier to arrange when all the other TDO's have sorted their dates out. If yours fits around theirs well I'm sure it'll be a go-er.

To be honest with you, the thought of being out there with a load of guys on Supermotos puts me off a shade but thats just me....

Keep us posted though, I'm up for it just couldn't commit to anything yet (which is probably a reason for your lack of response so far)

You won't be out with SM's mate.

They're in a group of their own.

RC8's, 950sms and 690SM/SMC's etc are going to fill groups 1 and 2...

Along i hope with Superdukes.

How come your not thinking about doing the normal 3 groups baised on riding levels?

Already shown my interest on the other forum but all being well i'll be there on the SDR and if its ready i may pay twice and take the tard aswell

Correct.

Group 1 Novice/Inters
Group 2 Inter/Fast
Group 3. Supermoto running the Woodland layout, they turn right on the start finish and striaght back up the mountain. Missing all of the faster back section of the circuit out completely.

The transition time for the marshals is 3-4 mins to set up for Woodland/full between sessions. So perfectly viable.

In simplest terms as above, without the SM class, we'd never hit the numbers to put a full KTM trackday in place.

I'm still not 100% convinced we can get the numbers yet.... However at this stage i'm hopeful.

Although i won't be putting my bank card on the line without plenty of people on both KTM forumes offering the idea that i have at least SOME chance of getting it back

I'm in anyway Weeksy. Thats all you need.

I understand banter weeksy, as I said its fine from someone who knows me (and knows how slow/fast I'm not). caught me at a bad time

I hope you can make it work, sounds like a lot to take on.

The idea of 3 groups that you are intending looks good. It would be enjoyable to see the SM boys ripping it up too.

I think we had about 20 of us on crashfest this year, if its gonna be a ktm exclusive day you will be working hard to get the numbers.

If you can make it work it will indeed be a cracking day! I really want to get some good days in next year so if its the right day/price I'll be there.

There must be done underlying problem here that I'm missing.

I expected this to be full of guys expressing interest by now.

Don't get why guys wouldn't be up for this. Trackday full of other ktm owners, sound like a great day to me.

[QUOTE=YorkshireBorn;810162]weeksy any news on price?[/QUOTE]

Not yet i'm afraid, there was a 2nd person copied in on the emails who is the representitive for 'Club MSV' who will be managing the booking. THey'll be looking after the 'extras' like the marshalls, insurance, briefing, booking, WWW, phone etc....

Once they get the final numbers then we'll know more on the price.

Basically the circuit and the managed services comes in at £8200 to book it.

If we work on 40 riders per group 1 & 2 (plus instructors, non paying) and 33 riders in SM group. that gives us say 110 riders to split £8200 between.

Lets call it for arguments sake £80.

However, i can't promise yet that will be the overall cost, as they may do it on a "non filling" basis and compensate for lack of numbers by upping the price ? I also don't know 100% how many SM's they'll allow on the Woodland layout, so that 33 figure is slight guesswork

But i'd think somewhere around £80 each is a decent figure to be going on with.

I will then be debating a "BBQ/Beer" type option, but again that depends on what happens in the next couple of conversations with the Cadwell team, as opposed to the MSV team i've mostly been dealing with up to now.

Sure it makes no difference but I could only do the July date, definate no-no for September.

Hopefully Interest will pick up in the New Year for you, I'm all for it. Monday is always better for me as its a 500 mile round trip from my neck of the woods.

£80-£90 is the going rate for Cadwell in the Summer on a Monday so I think you will need to be offering a little more than the standard day, which it sounds like you will if it comes together.

I'm sure once you have the firm date the momentum will start to build.

Most are showing a preference for the July date... so i've requested he pushes the other bloke out to sept. ALthough, i doubt i have much say in it as i'm a 'newbie'.

I'm gong to TRY and offer 'more'... i'm full of bright ideas.... Whether i can actually get any of them to work out with dealers/ktm/MSV, that's open to debate.

Assuming this all works out, i can promise 2 things you won't see anywhere else..

1. a Trackday full of KTM's
2. a trackday of SM's also

July date is good for me.

Tbh I don't think you need to offer more mate. If its under 100quid, well that's the going rate for a day on track at Cadwell. The appeal with this event is it is all ktm.

As long as we can have chilled marshals at the mountain with no access to black flags I'll be a happy man.

The only issue for me is I will be putting the SD.net Crashfest first. So if this one ends up being too close to the Crashfest then I won't be able to do it.

does the £8200 cover liability insurance? Ambulance? Food staff?

who is going to be able to do a serious briefing.??? none of you lot for starters!!!

I'll brief it.


Hello everyone, welcome to the doo.

Go as fast as you can. Try not to fall off, and if you do try not to take anyone with you.

You all know the flags. Yellow, watch for pedestrians on track. Stripey one, get ready to catch a big unexpected slide. Red, session over, come in an gab pish about ktms. Blah blah

Lunch is at 1pm.

Have a good day.


That should about cover it.

no mention of JODY's or Ginges antics on the mountaine??

mispost

[.. ..

I genuinely hope your TD is a huge success and forum members sign up for it. It will be a cracking day, MSV are a world class TDO and Cadwell an awesome circuit.

Crikey this is getting a bit serious, fwiw I've never heard anything bad said about any of you.

I'm pretty sure there's no conspiracy going on here, its just bloody December! Nobody has any money to put down, its gonna be dark for 3 months and whenever this day happens its 8 months away at least. Crashfest was bloody legendary this year (can't comment on previous cos I wasn't there) its still fresh in the memory and its THE event on here. I know it takes planning and I take my hat off to you for planning it.

Klinck is spot on, Crashfest comes first and its a day which comes together by everyone's input. To get 20 Superdukers ( and one RC8 and a SM950 ) is epic and it always will be. Funds are tight and for me Crashfest comes first too.

So I'll say again, I think lack of interest on here comes down to 3 things.
Crashfest
December
Money

The way this thread is turning, It ain't looking favourable though. I would let things lie low and see what comes together in the Spring. This forum is full of great Guys, not everyones gonna like each other though I suppose.

Yeah no conspiracy going on here,i did the original KTM day which Weeksy sorted out and it was brilliant. After that we've just carried it on every year and called it the "Crashfest" and every one was invited along.
I'll be doing the the crasfest again this year as we roughly know that it's around August time depending on available days/date's,i'll more than likely attend the KTM day if it doesn't clash with other already arranged meet up's,so put me down as a "maybe" i'll not fully commit untill i know myself that i can make it


Cadwell used to run a SM track that took a sharp right after Charlie's two and then ran accross the infield and came out at the new chicane (it put loads of mud on the track,or it did when i was there) before going up the mountain, the Woodland section is all tarmac which i think Stupid Luke got slightly confused with.

i need to get on here more often...

i'm in (crashfest too), but on topic flidfest is on for me, approx £100 for a summer trackday full of ktm's at cadwell, which ever day it is and with enough notice... i am going





that is all

i have a meeting with MSV today to confirm some details and will hopefully get everything tied up. Well at least from the booking/pricing perspective.

Then need to finalise instructors, get a suspension man, get a tyre man, then get all the KTM dealers and KTM on-board.

It's all good fun

Right lads, let me tell you where we're up to with discussions and ideas etc. I know you may be thinking "come on FFS, get it booked and sorted" and i totally understand that...but if even 5 people are short on the max groups, i'm potentially £500 down... so you can see why if only 80 (out of 110) people book i'm the best part of £3000 down and obviously that really can't happen in my perception as i'm not doing this as a business, but more as a get-together.

So.. Using No Limits and Focused Events dates and prices i've made it as competeitive as possible, lower IMO than any other July TD will be at Cadwell (i hope).

Price will be £91 per person.
Sessions from 9am-5pm with a 1 hour lunch break.
Groups Novice/Inters : Inters/Fast : Woodland Supermoto
Instruction will be provided free of charge by current trackday instructors and/or current top level racers.
Tyre changing facilities
Suspension advice and KTM specialist knowledge

Now, if i'm in the wrong ballpark lads, feel free to let me know and i'll trash the idea and we'll see if we can book anything with another organiser who may get a better deal than me booking the date.


Lastly and probably quite important potentially. If the trackday does not reach the required numbers with 6 weeks to go, i will open it up to forum friends/familly/buddies on ANY bikes.... if they do not make the numbers up by the final 3 weeks i will open up to the general public. (PLEASE tell me if you think this part is unreasonable). Obviously this will not affect the Supermoto group, which is not restricted to any manufacturer of bike, but restricted to Supermotos.

I have no road bike for a TD but if I did id be interested in this, doubt I will have one by July will see.

But anyways, good luck will pop down if it happens

I have a ktm 450 sxf would only need SM wheels and tyres but not sure id get my kicks from an SM.

I would hate to crash someone else bike and then have to pay to fix it with OEM parts etc, could cost $$$$$$ so no would not rent one.

I'd be interested but only when it opens up to other bikes as my trackday riding mate has a honda and costs for van fuel etc make it an expensive day on my own..

So I'll be interested but only if there's spaces for friends etc?

Good luck and I'll keep an eye on this thread nearer the time.

i am interested in this weeksy, but will not commit until near the time

not sure i really need a ktm only day ,as its good to have some people on the same bike as you but i normally end up playing with people on better bikes.(read ; i got loads of money look at my fantastic track only bike/did i mention how fast i am when i had only just met you).

also putting inters and fast together does mean you can find yourself catching someone up alot quicker than you expect as they do a huge amount of nervous braking ages before the corner.

still interested as said .

minor issue, my pricing scheme never read the full details correctly and the £7200 circuit hire price is actually £7200+VAT... taking it to £8600 or so.... making the £92 price a little tight when facotring in all other possiblities etc... So i forsee the price being hiked to £99. MAin reason for this is that the Supermoto group can only be 33 riders... the other 2 groups are 43 riders (i have to subtract 2-3 non-paying instructors from these totals).

I was also thinking about opening it up to members friends etc (i can password protect the booking on-line and on-phone) but some people need van sharing abilities etc to enable them to make it. Obviously this will mean probably some Non-KTM riders out there, but i'm then restritcing my own possibility of making a loss on the day, which obviously from a selfish perspective is a good plan for me

As always, any thoughts, feel free to share.

do you have a confirmed date yet?