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secondary flies

59 posts · Started by KTM666 · 08 Oct 2011

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Post 1 by KTM666,

#1
After reading several notes on the secondary flies could anybody please advise.
Ive currently got the motobox flies fitted but if i remove them completley and the shafts what can i expect.
Is there more power,less or more bottom end or less or top end.
Any advice much appreciated.
My bike spec and mods are listed below

Post 2 by Viking,

#2
More power and better throttle all good ...no down side

Post 3 by KTM666,

#3
Nick, what do you use to block the holes? Can you aradite them up or do you know of a specific plug hat fits them.

Also, is it just a case of removing them or do you have to buy a tune ecu cable and switch them off. Could i just tug them outta there with no probs?

Post 4 by Viking,

#4
I used Black number plate plastic bolts and silicon sealant

If you remove the secondarys complete you will get F1 fault light (TuneECU will switch it off) You could just remove the flies ...not as good but MUCH better than keeping them

Post 5 by Lowrance,

#5
Trying to remember off the top of my head how it looks.

Leaving the little bar in cant make that much difference to air flow can it?

What about gains by doing that? Is it just rideability improvement or are there power gains too? The throttle bodies are the same and they still have the main flies so cant imagine there being any power gain?

Bear with me, i've been in the pub today. I'm ready to jive out there weilding a screwdriver and haul them outta there.

Post 6 by AGRO!,

#6
Once mapped for the flies removed the bike has a substantial increase of low end power....very substantial. I haven't removed my shafts as of yet (no Tune ECU cable to turn them off). One day.

John

Post 7 by KTM666,

#7
I have been running my bike with flies turned on but have set all setting to 100% so I don't have to stuff around removing them.
I uploaded another map today and thought I would leave the flies running this time. MH flies...
What I noticed is that without flies the bike needs to be in 5 gear at 90 kph to run smooth.
With flies the bike can be run down to 75 to 80 kph in 6 gear?
Without flies bike picks up quicker.. It seems that I have to twist the grip more to get the same pick up with flies running.
For now I'm going to just run the flies with new map and see how it goes.

Post 8 by AGRO!,

#8
Even with the Flies set to 100% they still have an effect, as still they change the throttle bodies flow Characteristics significantly from that of fully removed

I have not found a down side to removing them...all good (I have yet to hear of someone putting them back......wait for it )

Post 9 by KTM666,

#9
What map are you using?

Post 10 by MrZ32,

#10
A custom PC111 map that I had done by Crescent (I have DNA mk3 filter...)

Post 11 by Ducati Pete,

#11
Thanks for help guys,
ill be taking them out when ive some spare time and get my ECU cables back

Post 12 by Colonel_Klinck,

#12
there is a big difference to be had between no flies and no flies & shafts.... it makes the bikes so much smoother and more powerful

Post 13 by Ducati Pete,

#13
When you remove the shaft are you removing the whole servo motor?

Post 14 by jambox,

#14
Yeah it all comes out Pete. It's fairly obvious but you'll find it a lot easier if you remove the throttle bodies. I used some plugs that someone posted a link for in the 2nd flies thread. Can't remember the diameter off the top of my head, being a bit toasted isn't helping either

You could do with the map be adjusted for them being missing. I can't remember if you said you had your bike dyno'd? You'll notice less engine braking and a bit more grunt down the bottom. Also more noise. I like what it did to mine. There is a tiny spot funny spot around 4.5k in my map but apart from that its a definite improvement without them.

Post 15 by Ducati Pete,

#15
I took the flies out years ago when I had that long term problem.
I'm thinking of getting a map done up in brummie land so may as well remove the shaft.

Post 16 by CEREC1,

#16
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Post 17 by MrZ32,

#17
Thanks, I'll order some on Monday.

Post 18 by KTM666,

#18
This is my To Do list of 2013.

"Swat the flies".

Plug the "O2" sensors.

Map to suit?

Drunk as fook. (Just Sorned bike on probably the best weather we'll get in 2013?)ITSA UK thing.

BTW. Fakujak72. Says Happy New Year!
Whatever> SDR Statistics say, That 17.5 % of the Superduke Forum, will be dead by the time The new SD is released. ( Add your own percentage Bollocks: )

Anybody Here ?

Post 19 by TLS_Russ,

#19
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Post 20 by tripoddave,

#20
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Post 21 by fuel,

#21
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Post 22 by kevxtx,

#22
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Post 23 by TLS_Russ,

#23
IMO I think the reason for differing results of this mod are that if the secondary flies are not set up correctly pulling them out will show improvements... if the secondaries are adjusted correctly and to suit other mods to the intake and exhaust etc then maybe there will be very little difference, possibly not enough to reliably measure on a dyno

Post 24 by KTM666,

#24
...Try it you will be suprised ......far more direct and Grunty

Post 25 by TLS_Russ,

#25
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Post 26 by tripoddave,

#26
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Post 27 by Jermo,

#27
The noticeable power and smoothness increase in both midrange and top-end by setting the flies to 100% all the time convinces me to pull the flies completely and fit RC8 stacks. Whatever the reason was to put them in there the first place (sound, emissions, smoothness) the bike is better off without.

Post 28 by KTM666,

#28
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Post 29 by Nathan990,

#29
In my opinion there is one down side to secondary removal. It feels like the engine is gulping too much air when the throttle is cracked open in the lower revs. Most noticable when exiting a slow tight corner. I run a CPR filter which flows well, maybe too well. Bikes been dyno tuned and the tuner did compensate for the loss of low down oomp in the tuning. Still I think its worth it for the smoothness and less harsh engine braking.

Post 30 by Colonel_Klinck,

#30
More than one tuner has stated that if the 2nd flies are tuned properly they should work well. But you have to find a tuner who is prepared to do it as Power Commander doesn't have the option (well the 3 certainly doesn't) and its going to add time to the tuning so more money. If you are going to get a tune done and your tuner doesn't work with software that allows the 2nd flies to be tuned you are better off whipping them out IMO.

Post 31 by Jermo,

#31
No matter how well the 2nds are set up, they'll still cost you power...

Post 32 by kevxtx,

#32
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Post 33 by JohnJJr,

#33
+2
if i remember correctly , my tuner ran bike with flies open and got 2hp increase - said to me "You really should just yank those fat ole shafts out as they're gettin in the way of air flow anyway even with flies open - so yanked em and picked up another 2hp - that's 4 hp all together .... sounds like a no-brainer to me

Post 34 by Exitman,

#34
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Post 35 by tripoddave,

#35
Yes, you can rip those off and you'll get most of the benefit straight away - benefits from a little remapping.

Post 36 by AGRO!,

#36
So Kev are you saying set all fl settings to 50%
From zero to 100?

Post 37 by MrZ32,

#37
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Post 38 by AGRO!,

#38
Hey James yep I have a pcv and auto tune and I was curious to what Kev was saying.
Thanks for your reply

Post 39 by kevxtx,

#39
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Post 40 by kevxtx,

#40
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Post 41 by AGRO!,

#41
Thanks Kev I will give it a go. What is your TPS set at PCV?

Thanks
Jeff

Post 42 by kevxtx,

#42
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Post 43 by AGRO!,

#43
Thanks Kev I have mine set at 0.6 this seems to be best on my bike.
Thanks for the info and hijacking the thread

Post 44 by Kaz,

#44
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Post 45 by SDNerd,

#45
Didnt really understood. Will the performance be better even if I only remove the football butterflies and leave the rest in place. How much will the remaining "rod" in the TB decrease the performance compared to remove everything?

Post 46 by The Gin Reaper,

#46
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Post 47 by Stratkat,

#47
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Post 48 by The Gin Reaper,

#48
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Post 50 by rocketchick,

#50
Damn you guys...Epic battle in my mind...
Shafts no shafts
flies no flies
remove SAS, O2 Sensors
tune ecu, power commander (sounds like both) custom maps, which maps?
Is my bike running lean? Should I bring it to the tuner? Can he tune the individually?
Do I even have a decent tuner locally?

Fook Me I know my bike can be smoother than it is.
The info is too much toooo much, But well appreciated.

I do have the Tune ECU cable. I just need to take the plunge.

Post 51 by Katomic,

#51
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Post 52 by JohnJJr,

#52
Hi all,
Not to whip the dead horse or anything... but just wondering, would I need a re-map if I used TuneECU to turn off O2 sensors, turn off Second flies (and remove the actual flies but leave shafts in) and run stock exhaust??
Marty

Post 53 by AGRO!,

#53
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Post 54 by ktmguy,

#54
From what I was told it's not a good idea to run akrapovic map with stock cans as this makes the cat run hotter and can cause a fire.

Post 55 by AGRO!,

#55
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Post 56 by AGRO!,

#56
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Post 57 by bic_bicknell,

#57
Riding season over for this year and time to start fiddling with the bike so thought I'd give removing the 2nd flies a try

Apparently a straight forward and easy task with the only downside being the FI light.

I don't have Tune Ecu to turn it off, so I was wondering if one could just pull the flies and the shafts, plug the holes and leave the motor in place. Would this not fool the system to think the parts were still there? Did a similar thing with the SAS valve (installed block plates and removed the hoses) and it worked without any problems.

Have tried to search the web for an answer, with poor results though. People who leave the motor in Place also leave the shafts in place.

Post 58 by Ducati Pete,

#58
The flies have a tps so you will get a warning light unless you turn them off with tuneecu.

Post 59 by 41KS,

#59
Excuse my noobiness but what is tps?
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