Who has swapped to Nichols triple clamp.

I know many of us switched over to the Nichols triple clamp a few months ago and it just occurred to me that we have been pretty silent on the subject since.

http://www.gotagteam.com/KTM_Days/Video ... iples.html

My question is this:
For those of you who have purchased and installed the Nichols set up, what is your opinion as to how much the bike has changed for you. The way it steers, the ride height, feel, etc.

I know for me, when I joined the TriValley team, they changed the components and after that and six months off the bike, I felt I had to relearn it. The results were massively improved confidence in both slow and fast turns, in trail braking and just about everywhere. That and putting the proper spring on my shock has allowed me the ability to push harder without feeling like I am pushing too far.
As some of you know, when you drop even a few seconds off lap times, new problems rear their ugly head. You fix them and get faster. Then more issues.
I now just need suspension tweaks, not geometry changes.
The improvements I have made this year in riding are substantial, I think. I credit much of this to the Nichols set up.

What do think of yours?


Me not looking as cool as GoGo in the turns..

I'd love to have it as well. I know why but don't know how to assembly it.
And how much is a pair?

Just the top tree
If I want adjustable shock length I'll get one of the Penske's in the shop rebuilt.
For me; The SDR doesn't need to more rear height and I'm not going to lower it.
Jeff

Yep like loony says, it will fit, but only if you replace the bottom yolk for an 07 unit as the offset on them is different from 07 onwards.

Suscribing... interested in a group buy for the complete set if this materializes.

Derick

I am in for a group buy of the kit. Can anyone confirm the Triple is anodised black?

Cheers Cameron

They are anodised black.
I doubt there will ever be a group buy as these are pretty much made to order. At least I don't think that there are 10+ sitting on a shelf somewhere.

Face it men, we are a very select group of people that happen to love the SD.
AND NO ONE ELSE GIVES A SHIT!! Especially KTM!
They are offering a contingency in the AFM and WERA clubs of $1000 for 1st place on a KTM. That is if you are on an RC8. Race a SD? F' you!
I would have been happy if they were at least able to support my need for a clutch pressure plate. Not a chance. Had to go to Suter.

I guess we should just be thankful that Nichols and Motohooligan make trick parts for us.

Having real problems trying to raise the dead at trivalley to sell me these things.

Just paid for a setup awesome

Lucky dawg ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

it's definitely quality kit, you will need the bolts from a superduke R to mount the handlebar clamp mounts, the part number is 0912100356

paul.

Cheers guys,

I have an 07 lower triple tree on the way should arrive Monday by the looks of it, will be getting it anodised black and black powerdercoating the swing arm, 4-6 weeks before my Beringers arrive so should have plenty of time to have everything ready for the sdr suspension update. Btw is there any easy way to work out whether I have indeed received a 07 lower triple tree without removing the one on the bike currently and comparing?

Cheers cameron

where the RHS fork leg pushes through, on the top face of the lower triple there will be a small lump on the inside edge, it's to locate the steering damper bracket, only on 07 on bikes.

paul.

Running a 190 really depends on 3 things

Which Tyre manufacturer (they should be the same width but they are not....)

Running 520 chain and sprockets (or the tyre hits the chain)

What gearing you are running ...as you need to move rear wheel back away from swing arm to get ANY clearance (or add links to your chain) which in its self changes the bike geometry …significantly (and works quite well in its self…making it less twitchy….. I am Running 16 37 gearing which makes quite a difference)

You can feel the difference....but it’s the height (and longer wheelbase) not the extra footprint (most 190 tyres need a 6" rim to give correct profile......only Dunlop states D211 190 can be run on 5.5" rim.......I tried one on my Superduke and was leaving black marks on the inside of the swinging arm....both sides.....And I did have static clearance not a good idea

To get the extra height I changed shock from SD to SDR...works a treat (Nichols rear ride height adjuster would be a better idea.....but I got the shock for the right money).....and I believe (tell me if I am wrong) you need to get the original shock rebuilt to incorporate the Nichols Adjuster?

I would like to try the Nichols Triple clam as my forks are running flush /1mm below standard clamp...and it is definitely much better (but I am running out of inside leg measurement to go much higher)

I run Dunlop D211 soft on the front...they are fantastic heat up really quickly (even on the road) and grip well and last.... 1 front to 2 backs

I am running an SDR shock so I might try moving going with 5mm showing and see how that goes.

I am running 180 rear, I only fitted SDR shock as you say for additional ground clearance (Lost 1/2"of footrest's and touching clutch cover down..not a good idea) I have front adjusted with minimum rider sag that it will run and still be stable and D211 front seems to have a higher profile than other 120/70 tyres I have used (wore a hole through the mrs front mudgaurd ......and it was the correct size tyre)..and most inportant....getting my ass off the seat

I Looked at the Cadwell times...I would just get on the grid

I saved a front end tuck on my last session second lap, I feel sometimes I am putting blind faith in the front insted of knowing what is going on, dont get me wrong I like the bike but I feel it can be so much better, I know what you are saying viking about the front it always feels like it takes a long time to warm up and start putting faith in it, I had a problem with running wide on exit, that was sorted with a stiffer spring at the rear

Is anyone running a steering dampner with their nicholls and if so which one?

I used the Scott. Fit and worked great. Ugly as hell though.
I am a function over form guy so it didn't matter.

I bolted mine right on with the std and the Nichols, no worries. Just needed to take the time to figure the geometry. I did no modifications.

OK so you are saying the standard scott mount for an SD will work with the nicholls.

Mine did. So I guess that is what I am saying.

I got the Nichols setup a few months back but never really set it up. I just took some time after a tyre change to really dial it in. I'm not real sensitive to suspension tweaks, so I made big changes away from stock, and am making small tweaks back towards stock to find the sweet spot. Starting at the rear, I dropped it all the way down, and it really calmed things down. It doesn't fall into the slow turns, it doesn't deflect off bumps and it is a lot nicer to ride on the street. I'll start raising the rear one turn at a time to see where it starts to feel a bit twitchy, then back off.

Just some info for the 05-06 guys.

Done some research on part numbers on the new style lower triple for us to get the Nichols to mount.

Our standard 05-06 lower is........ 61001031026
The silver 08> lower is............. 61101032039 01s and brand new from KTM is £155.16 inc vat
The 08> SDR anodised black lower is the same part ...61101032039 33s and is the same price £155.16 in vat
The change in the final 2 numbers is the colour code.

So you can get the black lower to match the black Nichols for no extra cost over the silver.

I suggest you revisit the concepts of lean angle v. using the whole tyre v. speed.
As always, the idea is to use the least amount of lean angle for the appropriate speed.
This allows more tyre to be available which will allow an increase in speed.

In my case it meant scraping the clutch cover at the beginning of the 2010 season while not getting even close to scraping at the end of the season whilst rounding the track 12 seconds faster than previously, due to change of riding position and reduction of lean angle.
Couldn't have gone faster if there was no lean angle/tyre available.

This is very simplistic of a way to look at it but it makes my point, I think.

Sorry if this is old news or a repeat but every time I hear about lean angle I wonder if folks get what it is about since one of the purposes of hanging off is to reduce lean angle.
Sure it looks cool but if the bike is all the way over, how do you increase speed?

I would just do it. I would set it up just like the SDR and see how it goes. My bike feels great and works pretty well(verified by MIke in the canyons). As far as track goes maybe it varys alittle. Raising up the bike on both ends also gets you some added ground clearance that I think is needed on these bikes for the SD models. You can always lower the back down if you find it handeling badly. I would still like John to take my bike for a run and see the difference between the SD and the SDR. That way we have a fair opinion on both layouts of the bikes.

5mm difference between the standard and SD-R shock will equate to just over 1/2' at the rear wheel. That is a very substantial change in rear ride height!

The thing I think some may be forgetting is that Go-Go had the top triple clamp made to allow MORE rear ride height. His suspension tuner suggested he shoot for more swing arm angle (similar to a GSX-R) to increase rear wheel traction (meaning raise rear ride height a lot to increase the swing arm angle from approx 7 degrees to 11 or 12 degrees - can't recall exact numbers). The only way this could be accomplished was to drop the forks a substantial amount to get trail numbers back to respectable levels. Not sure where he actually ended up with his numbers but that was his goal.

As far as omky756's issues. He stated his current shock was about 0.187 shorter than his stock shock. That will equate to a little less than a 1/2" lower rear ride height measured at the wheel. That's a lot! His bike didn't even move when he sat on it so we took a couple turns out of the preload to get some sag (20mm if I remember correctly). This was lowering the bike even more. I recommended he put the stock shock back on the bike or adjust the current one to at least stock height. To be honest I believe he'd be much better off returning to stock and forgoing the Nichol's set-up. Just my humble opinion. I'm not sure he's going fast enough to take advantage of any possible gains to potentially be had with this set-up.

I move along pretty well (nobody has accused my of being in their way) on my bike with the stock geometry...track or street. Something to consider? I dunno.

John

Kowekiller makes a very good point about ground clearance. That extra 1/2 inch rear ride height will increase ground clearance substantially (the very reason KTM made the change in the first place..SD Cup UK). I meant to mention that in my previous post.

I'm dragging parts at the track and could deffinitely use the additional ground clearance...that's with Rizoma rear-sets in highest position. Not dragging on the street of course.

Not sure if I want to ride your bike...It'd be really hard to go back to my 118 at the rear after sampling the 130 your's has!

John

You're definitely right in the experience department John...
Checked out Twist of the wrist vids and I know where I sit...#2 vid..
I'm just getting going really...Got alot of goodies but..not yet experienced
enough to feel the difference...sorry to say...
I'll get there..

Sdnerd ....Im not running the Nichols clamp. I have been riding with him in the canyons quite a few times trying to sort out his suspension along with a quick set up from John(Lowance). Mike may not be the fastest (yet) but he is trying to learn and make the appropiate adjustments with advice from me and fellow members so he can get faster with out the bike showing signs of throwing him off. We have put both our bike side by side and took some measurements. Here is what we came up with
From the ground to the top of fork tube Mike's is 1/2" lower than the SDR. On the back from ground to tip of tail(both have SDR tails)He is 3 1/2" lower than my bike. I am trying to get his bike set at the same level as the SDR not only because it will give him added ground clearance but should put him within the better geometry to start off tuning it. The only way he can get the front higher is to run the Nichols clamp. He has already taken off the race spring and replaced it with the stock one as Lowance and me already determined it was to much spring for his weight.
Anyways taking small stabs here and there doesnt get anything solved. besides making people look like assholes. We are all tring to accomplish the same thing here and get these bikes sorted out. So lets keep it at that. We look forward to doing the track at Chuckwalla with you guys and are just looking for good knowledge so we can cruise with you guys at the same level (or better) without the fear of losing the bike on a turn. So bare with everyone on this site that doesnt have some of the knowledge that you may have and if you offer advice do it without criticism. See you at the track

Ya know guys...
I come to this particular forum because I felt I could LEARN from the most experienced Superduke riders...I enjoy the HELL outa my bike.!!More than ANY other bike I've had...I DO come from stricly a dirt bike backround..With my hiatus away for quite a while because I had family to support..The more important stuff...NOW..is I have the time and am working on what I always wanted and loved..Yes..at 55years old.!!!..I WANT to get to the track.. Also I mentioned...I have a deep desire to gain more knowledge of my bike and how to be a MUCH better rider...I've afforded for once in my life the bike..even paid full price for it and all the goodies to make it what most everyone here wants...A bike that isn't snatchy...is smooth..TuneECU downloads, the right suspension mods etc...Also by being on this forum I've picked up some GREAT used parts deals...Isn't that what WE ALL want here..???
Here's my deal.....
I weigh 215lbs currently....Want to loose 20..( ALSO 31in. inseam )
'08 SD
I picked up DRSuade's nichols triple and rear shock with adjustable heim joint...

I DID call him (Rob) late one night to ask about the shock length being aprox. 3/16in. shorter than the SD standard shock...He said probably put it to standard length..OR call TRi Valley for more info...When I spoke to Nichols said the guy that set up Gogo's bike has now retired...
Rob also mentioned his race weight was like 209lbs...

Yes..the shock has been revalved with different shim stack and I'm going to guess with the Eibach red spring possibly 1,000lb. spring rate..(Lawrence's guess)
It is aprox 1/4in. shorter than the standard OEM ORANGE spring the stock shock came with...and since I had it I felt I wanted to try the ORANGE spring...Just to experiment...MAYBE..I should find an expert and pay for it to be set up properly..

My forks have standard springs and have never been touched except for me setting it up myself on preload etc...
and I'm running the 180/55 rear tyre..Standard chain...

Other stuff I have done myself as I AM a mechanic by trade aren't important on this particular thread...

Since I've had a bit of trouble finding information..I've come to you guys that KNOW more than I do...Hoping to get it straight...

Thanks Lawrence for helping me..I didn't ask...but being the man you are I see you felt it a good thing to show me..and teach me...Kowekiller and I are into this and have become friends...We're addicted..Just like you...and a bunch of others here..
Thanks Nerd for your help..I'm absorbing what I can...

I'd like to get to the track soon..but haven't decided yet if I'm ready...Sometimes...you guys make it sound like I shouldn't...but then you don't know me either...Nerd did say I should of been at Chuckwalla last Nov..I'd of been in the same park as Vic...but I wasn't ready then...

I hope this straightens anything out...gives you my goal here...a bit more info you asked for...

Thanks.!!!

Mike

I think that you "quoted" before I finished my edit. No worries.

I did see your weight and suggested some spring rates. I assumed that that weight is without gear (?). Hyperco also has a 1050 lb/in. spring rate. 1000 Lb./in. (18.0) is what the SDR came with (always orange). US 07-08 SDs came with a 950 Lb/in. (17.0) spring (came in both white and orange). Point, the orange of the KTM spring doesn't tell me the rate ... on the plus side, they are marked. Regardless, I don't think either KTM rear spring is quite enough for you.

You can get that Eibach (?) spring rate measured, if its not marked. Anyone claiming to do suspension work has the setup to remove it from a shock, and measure the rate. If a motorcycle suspension place can't do this - don't walk - RUN away. Many better motorcycle shops have this facility. Call around. IIRC, there's a decent small house with a good rep in Simi or thereabouts ... the name escapes me at the moment ...

Yes, shim stacks and settings may not be 'perfect' (for a change of spring - somewhat dependent on how far that spring was changed from the spring that the shock was valved for), but everything starts with springs. Front and rear. One could install the Nichols bits, start playing with them - but its unlikely that its benefits will be well realised if the springs aren't right. Damping can be sorted.

[quote="SDNerdI think there may be a misconception (?) that the Nichols TC changes offset. It doesn't.

And I wasn't just making up the stuff about Go-go's suspension guy, the shortening due to the Nichols, etc. [/quote]

Not sure if you were refering to me but no mis-conception on my part. Pretty obvious the only way to change off-set is by replacing both top and bottom clamps.

Had to do so on my Supermoto bike. I had some custom triple clamps machined to reduce off-set from 25mm to 13mm on my YZ450F to get some feel and stability entering corners hard on the brakes. They made a huge difference.

Not sure who you spoke with but from what I read and saw in the videos Nichols lengthend Go-Go's shock to increase swing arm angle. In doing that the rear ride height was much higher than the front (dereasing trail and steering head angle) which would have made the bike very unstable...probably everywhere. By using the TC they were able to push the forks down to return to acceptable steering gepmetry mubers (and if pushed through far enough could actually increase trail over stock numbers).

Oh and Mike, 0.25" shorter on the spring will have no aafect of ride height.

John

You cannot increase the swing arm angle by reducing the shocks overall length.

what you guys seem to forget is that the geometry and fast turn in is not bad... Rather it is not suited to the speeds developed on the track. The sd's natural strongpoint is in the tight twisties... Where overall speed is not high but lightening speed tip in is required. Think of the SD as a combo of a motard and a sport bike. It was designed to fill a gap that hadn't been properly attempted before.

Hello to this thread .

i don't know squat about geometry . ( well just alittle ). But i found that video on the guy crashing at Infineon on his SD. While watching the vid just before he crashed i was saying to myself " That's exactly what my SD is doing ". Referring to the front feeling like it's gona tuck and wash out. I went through that with my SD for the first 5 months i owned it and was getting really frustrated - felt like i could hardly ride the damn thing sometimes. ( i ride alot of twisties - and have had my SD for 1 year now ) ...

After watching that vid i pushed the tubes down in my stock triple so the tip of the tube is inset almost 1/4".... Made a huge amount of difference for me at 190 lbs. body weight. I feel i'm pushing the bike through turns as hard as i can for the most part. Dunlop Q2's grip nicely.

I've settled on rather stiff settings that are really close to the click's recommended for race settings from factory manual with the exception the rebound is cranked up pretty high. It seemed like i was getting some POGO'ing until i cranked rebound way up. But as i mentioned the other day here on the forum i have a friend that let me ride his Triumph 675 triple the other day and his suspension is really really smooth and absorbs alot of the road making my SD feel pretty harsh in comparison.

Seems like the SD suspension ( at least what i have ) is best performing at higher speeds where it seems to me runs well.

I'm curious about having the front revalved or something if it truly makes these bikes perform better . Maybe someone can chime in on this while here in the Nichols thread.

And i am also curious about you guys saying you're scraping hard parts . Again i've mentioned this before here i'm riding my superduke all the way to the edge of the Q2's and not scraping pegs - although it does look like i may have scraped a peg rubber once .. I'm wondering how you guys scrape the pegs , maybe it's at higher speeds while the suspension is squatting more than what i've been ????

Also i've heard coating the fork tubes with that Black finish ( forget the name of the stuff ) is supposto reduce the "Sticktion" and allow a more free moving suspension.

Might consider the Nichols triple - they also look awesome . Incidentally i have sag figures on the softer side of things . I don't have a big inseam either and didn't want the bike any higher than it is - even had the seat cut down .

Doesn't matter if i get no response to this post - i just wanted to throw this out there just to see what might come back - seems there's a few of you who have this stuff somewhat figured out.

With talk about spring rates i've been wondering if i should change mine - as mentioned i weigh about 185lbs - don't know what stock front springs are . Oh well.

thnx in advance.

john

going to order the tc this week still not sure about the clevis after a lot of reading the only reason he wanted to lower the rear was because gogo was running a 190 rear which when pinched onto the 5.5 rear wheel will give a tall tyre, taller rear so it was neede to lower the rear a bit am I right?

Petrol... Matches... Golf shoe...

Not irritated at all, and by no means do I think you (or anyone else) an idiot. I address the questions you ask, in that hopefully the uninitiated (not just you) may be able to get their own relevant answers from.

I learned by reading, asking questions, and doing.

Technical subjects on forums IMO are not about the individual - nothing personal here.

I had the sensation that the front end was trying to bend under the bike at the track, until I lowered the rear.
I first put the forks down into the clamps ( raising the front) with a gap of .375" from the top of the tube to the top of the clamp and kept the the shock at stock length.
This helped some at hi speed while leaned way over and hitting bumpy sections. But it still didnt feel smooth, kinda deflecting.
I then lowerd the rear all the way, smoothed it way out, but took away the quick turn in. I then raised the rear two rotations of the Heim at a time and test rode it till I felt the quickness come back. Theories and concepts may sound good at a bench, but at the end of the day it's what instills confidence that counts.
I've done two shock conversions. One the wrong way, one the right way. The key is dumping the Nitrogen Before you remove the Rebound adjuster carrier. If there is pressure, the rebound needle rod will push out and leak oil.
With the pressure dumped, the carrier can be removed, then the lower can be swapped. You have to hold the lower in a vise, loosen the lock nut, apply a bunch of heat to the lower thread to release the thread locker, then use the lock nut to remove the shaft from the lower.
If you happen to have a Nitrogen line and bottle, recharge it. If not, stop down to the suspension shop and get a recharge.
Thats how the second one was done ;>

thanks for that roamer, sd or sdr did you measure your finnished shock length

I'm still tweaking on it.
It's definately shorter than stock.

I asked this in the “intro” section, not kosher maybe.
1. Is the lack of trail a bigger problem on the “R”? (More in need of the TC)
2. Does the shock adjuster allow for a longer over all shock length, or only shorter?

Measured late at night off my spare and couldn't be arsed rooting around for my 100mm rule so I hope a tape measure, zip tie and a little trust will do...
All measurements done to the outside of the Heim.

80mm fully retracted


92mm (8threads showing) as reccommended by Tri-Valley for SDR set up with 190 rear (depending on tyre I know ) and forks all the way down in the Triple.
This only leaves 15mm in the billet bore. This is is the absolute minimum I would reccommend... Lateral forces should be low enough to get away only diameter of thread and not diameter and a half but that is up to the individual.


105mm fully extended and out (just to show total length)


Zip tie measuring standard 06 shock bottom


Zip tie on tape showing 90mm


A Michelin 190 rear raises the rear 18mm plus the 9mm longer shock... 27mm (I know the shock is on an angle but you get the picture)
This is the reason for the forks being pushed all the way down...
Forks down 20mm plus SDR Forks 6mm ... 26mm
All this to LOSE 1mm on the front... or around 0.25mm of trail (4mm change front or rear is equal roughly to 1mm of trail)
These were developed because the guy riding them had reduced his trail by 6.25mm (27/4=6.25) and kept binning it...
Now after that you get to play with swingarm angle (because you can adjust both front AND rear) and have a whole new argument on whether 5 or 12 degrees is right and if the length of the swingarm plays any part at alll... Any thoughts guys?

Yes (thoughts):

- Thanks for doing these measurements.

- Measuring to outside of heim is unorthodox (which contradicts some of your measurements noted and indicated in the photos), in that the OD (er, outside diameter) of links, varies. To do away with the vagaries of this bias, shock lengths (and reference dimensions) are done to the centers of links.

- Your zip tie doesn't seem to include the additional distance to the center of the OEM shock bottom mounting eye. Perhaps I misunderstand which "outside" of the link you are referencing. I will break out the calipers this evening, and provide that measurement. Its the same for both the SD and SDR BTW. As are the fork lengths of the SD and SDR.

- A 190/55 Michelin does not add 18 mm (v. a 180/55). It adds 5.5 mm - at the rear axle (which is much less at the shock).

I orderd the tripple last night, after watching the video gogo said the 190 lifted the rear 18mm nichols said to me last night that gogo lowerd the rear half inch, also on the video gogo says the heim is also to get the rear ride hight back to oem after fitting the 190, i will go with the tripple first and if I feel the need I will order the heim next winter, we need more info from gogo

do you run your forks pushed down level with the tripple sdnerd?

Nerdo, your bike already has the relaxed geo. How come you went for the Nichols?

Just gonna shoot from the hip here...
If the forks are same length (makes sense but we'll wait on measurements) and only the shock is longer then the frame would also be the same ( but orange)
Nichols fit 07 on SD and SDR... Same offset but as measured by GoGo the clamps on the SDR are 6mm higher dropping the nose decreasing trail.
To fit to 05 06 the lower clamp must be fitted changing offset and relaxing geometry...
Are all the frames just the same?
Has anyone checked?

Different part numbers on all 3 frames. Not sure if it's headstock differences though

Looney checked on the Fast O&B build thread.

Frames aren't the same (and I don't mean just the color). R has steeper head angle. Which for the same fork length, would result in the TC height (from ground, axle, whatever) being higher.

TC offsets are the same 07 up, SD and R.

Throw in the longer SDR shock, and not only does the bike sit higher than the SD, but it reduces trail further.

The R justifies not only the Nichols shock bottom/adjustable clevis more readily than the standard SD, but also pushing the fork tubes further down in the TC to get more trail.

Yeah ... the waggle - I'll bet it looked heinous from behind. Really didn't feel that bad. Definitely wasn't trying to highside me. All I would do is change line a little and it would stop. Then, some reduction in rear rebound seemed to make it all but disappear. I think some low speed comp was taken out too (don't immediately recall). I may roll a 180/55 next time - which might help also (?). My SD has no significant power mods - if it makes 110 RWHP, its a good day.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: Measured the shock lengths (again ...) and the length of the shock bottom from the center of the mount bushing to where the spring perch rests (shown in linga's picture above).

SDR Shock Length: 390 mm (bushing center to bushing center)
SD Shock Length: 385 mm
Shock bottom base Length: 102 mm (same on both).

Linga's measurements indicate what Nichols told me over the phone (noted previously): that the maximum (safe ?) useable length of their shock bottom is about the same as stock, and it only gets shorter from there. Here again, IMO it makes more sense to put this on the SDR than on the SD. Then again, adjustable is nice.

BTW Linga - your measurement with the cable tie is spot on. Add half the outside diameter of the stock shock bushing (~24.5 mm) to the 90 mm you measured = ~102mm.

Sooooooooooo...............

rode the bike today for tthe 1st time since fitting the Nichols and all that jazz.

Was warming it up for an oil change so only gave it a squirt in 1st and 2nd down the street and turned at the bottom.

Errrmmm. We have problem. Foot out, leaned left to do a U turn and the thing tipped in and tried to turn itself. Imagine your on an OCC chopper with a huge long stretched out front end, then leaned the bike to the side. The top of the front wheel just flops over on itself. It's like that.

Now, this all might be cool once up to speed in the track. Riding 100yds down the street aint gonna show too much, but fook me it's miles different from where it was before. Way too far. It shouldn't be doing that!

Forks are 10mm up through Nichols (which is a 10mm yoke drop from standard). Rider sags are 33mm front, 38mm rear.

So i have 2 option here.

1/ Drop the triples even further down the forks, say another 10mm. So thats back to standard (albeit 07> std) so what was the point in buyin the bloody thing in the 1st place.

2/ Put a set of ape hangers on it and buy some chaps.

It is your own fault for listening to those mericans. We all told you to buy a Tickles Nipple Clamp and be done with it

Maybe ....you just need to get use to the different feel.... 10mm is alot ..or go for the Nichols rear ride hight adjuster so you will have mile of ground clearance...

WTF happened to my post?

Anyway, are those riders sag numbers possibly reversed (front v. rear)? If not, that's going to have some (undesirable) affect here.

For (your) street use, perhaps try 15 mm showing on top, and maybe actually go out and ride the thing - as in, get your tyres warmed some, eh? I'm sure its just fooking balmy in Scotland and all, but cold buns ain't helping your cause.

Be sure to post a photo of yourself in those chaps - I'm sure someone here will appreciate it.

this is good news as my cuckoo clock shit should be here maybe next weak, think I will try before I slate the product

On the Nichol's set-up subject...

What I've gathered (from reading the posts) what most of you are trying to do is achieve more stability and feedback by increasing trail by raising the front (lowering the forks) and lowering the rear. This also changes the rake significantly (increases it from 23.9deg to...ahh, I don't have the time to calculate it out). The SD is 23.9 @ 101mm. The SDR is 22.7deg @ 97mm. Increasing trail would definitely acheive what your after but this is not the best way to acheive it IMHO.

The best way to increase trail is by reducing the triple clamp offset (I would guesstimate 4-5mm).This way you maintain the same 23.9 deg rake. I don't know what the stock offset currently is (I do know they are the same on the SD and SD-R...triples are interchangeable). This requires new top and lower triple clamps. This additional trail would increase stability substantially (and increase front end weight bias slightly - for better front end feedback) which is what most of you are after. I've known the SD would benifit from this since the first day of ownership. I just haven't gotten off my ass and designed a set yet. I basically put a band-aid on the situation by installing a Scott's damper and running it on the slower settings. Not ideal but works for 90% of the riding I do.

Now, if I'd bought the SD-R I might be looking at the Nichols set-up to relax the rake a bit (shooting for 23.5-24deg) which by default would increase the trail giving you some where around 100-102mm. Again increasing stability and front end feedback. But I probably would have had some new clamps machined up with reduced off-set (4-5mm) long before the Nichols set-up was conceived (then slapped a steering damper on it and run it at the slower settings).

John

maybe the prblem is the revalve and not the tripple, you say air gap was increased would that not cause the bike to sit lower at the front

just back from a run with the nichols top yolk and clevis fitted, yolk set 10mm lower and took 2mm of the length of the rear sag set at 36 front with 20mm static, rear 36 loaded with 9mm static even on old tyres from last year 4 track days and about 900 road miles I feel a little more confident I found myself a little more relaxed, the real test will be my first track day, dont think I will play much more until then

Is anybody able to check the amount of rebound on the shock clevis?
I have 15 clicks.
The manual states over 22 clicks.
Is this normal? Or has thetre been an installation SNAFU?

I backed out 2 turns from standard to achieve 25-26mm static and 36-38mm preload on the forks, my rear spring is a 200nm 8mm static and around 34-35mm loaded, if I back of the front anymore there is no real difference, I also had a set of forks of another sdr and tried them to see if any different they measured up much the same

Yep it was me with the large sag numbers (and dragging bits of my bike ) Still can't find that.
I was only commenting on Geometry with a Nichols and shock adj.
I'm still in Suspension 101 and and making my mistakes as I go.
Yes it was on an SDR an 06SD both with Nichols triples.
I keep forgetting that you guys don't have the 05-06SD and only the softer 07 on.
4mm in the front equals 1mm trail either way (roughly)
And being as the shock AND the forks are longer we are back on a level playing field (frames make a little more sense to me as I couldn't see the large difference between 06 and SDR)
I'm sure I need to do more with my settings and any advice would be great as it sounds as if you have had great changes to make to get your bike to handle correctly.
Also if you could help me out with my head shake, that would be great.
Or should this all (except for the Nichols bits) be in the suspension thread(still no question mark key )

yes suspension in the suspension thread getting a bit of track here, mine does not suffer from big head shakes although my damper is still working, as it was last year without the nichols bits it would shake a little on hard corner exits but never anything to worry about get your damper fixed

I spoke to my krooz tune in Melbourne and he suggested that I should check my rear sag (and we all know my history with that!) and if not that then push my forks through a little more.
He said that because it is bad to push them 5mm to see if it makes a difference and then adjust 2mm from there.
I'm going to change to a 190 rear so these are all out anyway but Ive been given some geo from Danny Boyd and he said they were running flush withe clamps and 8threads showing on the clevis.
This will be my start point next race as I will have no time to practice.
I'm measuring to the top line on the fork aswell when I do my measurements.

8 threads will make it higher than the standard sdr shock, I ran mine last sunday 4-5 threads showing and 10mm pushed through at the front and it felt great although it still felt a bit flighty at debtors fastest corner on the track if I had it to do again I would prob just buy the clevis and push the forks into the clamps a bit

Danny Boyd is talking shite mate. I've heard that tosh too. Yet funny how all the Team Tag pics I so happen to stumble across of the bikes in action, none of them show clamps flush.

I've done some trial and error with this stuff now. It's all coming pretty clear. I'll say one thing, if they were running them flush they were compensating elsewhere on the bike. Cadwell yesterday proved exactly that.

Not having a go at all at you dude. But I've come full circle with this shit and all the info that's being dripped across the pond.

Personally I think some of it was a band aid that ended up just being run with. SDR's were doing 1min 35's round Cadwell on standard short trail figures and 180 rears. That's fooking fast. Now if they had a 190, braced swingarm, and Nichols top clamp and clevis and bigger trail numbers would they be capable of 1min 30's? Less? How much difference would it have made? Bare in mind Shane Byrne qualified his 220+bhp Fireblade superbike with 1min 28........and that's a £100,000 plus works Factory Honda with a team of data engineers, factory support, and a world class rider on board.


Basics are. The Nichols clamp gives more front end feel and grip. Of that I'm sure. And anything that gives a rider more confidence in the front end is well worth having. There are other benefits to it that I'm finding out myself through trial and error............because even when asking for any small morsel of info or clarification on setup the utter bullshit and half hearted nonsense answers I receive back is ridiculous.

Ffs the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.


I stand by my post.


Linga, I've got no stability issues at all with my bike. It's planted. Going through charlies 1 & 2 on thurs I was barely touching the bars, literally finger tip presure, and it was holding a line and lean perfectly. Even with the bumps on Charlies 2 at lean rolling on the gas it never moved, twitched, tried to run wide etc.

I'm sure I pm'd you my setup and what I found with playing with a few things. Might be worth banging it in and trying it. Like you say, the bikes are pretty close on std geo just with longer suspension on the R.

Here's a clear as day pic of 8 threads showing...
Completely different setup tho, clevis is all different... Damn it!
I knew it wouldn't be that easy, that's why it won't work.
Danny's been helping me all he can and I can't speak highly enough for him. Motor makes great power and all is rock solid.
Setup is in my court... And I've NFI but a book I'm reading...
Suspension for Dumasses!

Confirming 190/55 in the rear.
That pic looks like a SD race shock with perhaps a Nichols one off part? They got that shock late in 2010 season and did a few things to make it work the way they wanted it to.
To tell you the truth, I am not convinced that my shock was made longer by the clevis. It was adjusted pretty far down on the threads.
Omky got it, lock stock and barrel so perhaps he has a pic of what it looked like then? That would be what mine was adjusted to.
My forks were even with the last line before the top.
Not to say I wasn't outgrowing the settings and would have needed them flush later in the 2011 season.
We'll never know.

My lower clevis

that race shock might of been the same length as a standard sd shock? and dr swades wont tell linga much either as linga is running an sdr diff geo and longer shock

After running my Nichols triple with a few different settings, I've settled on ~15mm of fork above the clamp. Tried 18 which is great in tight stuff, 12 was a little light on the front end under hard acceleration and tippy in tight stuff, and currently at 15.5 which seems to be a good blend of the two. I ride Southern California coastal canyons with a mix of high speed sweepers and tight twisties. Really happy with the setup, bike was pretty scary before..although everyone's setup and preferences will be different, I feel it is a good starting point for the street. When I get my steering stabilizer, r tail, and some track time in finally, we'll see how it changes.

Notes: 07 SD Intermediate street rider/expert dirt
Stock rear shock
180/55 Dunlop Q2
H/b in rear mounting holes facing forward
Ducati street fighter bars
Rear sets up 1" and back 1"
No steering stabilizer and stock seat height still