1 Track school Under the Belt

Yesterday, I finally got to ride the SD on the track. Went to new track here in S.A which is +- 4km long and pretty tight. Great place to test the handling.

Before we started I made my way to the KTM team and asked them to check he suspension settings before I went out. They said it was pretty good, just room for improvement on the rear, but unfortunately they said there was nothing much they could do for me, as I need to change the spring. Apparently the standard one was too stiff for track use?? (Any comments?)May be a load of bollox but I have to say the springs they running on the RC 8 were allot thinner then mine..

First Session: At first I was a bit nervous on the bike, (as I’ve said on other posts, I have had a few interesting moments on the road with the rear sliding out.) The bike felt really high and foreign.. but 2 laps down I was in the swing of things again, fitting the SDR tail piece to the SD was well worth it, the bike felt like a track bike again and before I knew it I was hanging off just like I would on one of my previous track toys. The bike behaved like a well tamed beast (remember I've never ridden a v-twin on the track) it was agile and smooth but I always had the impression there was plenty more available when I was ready to use it.

Second Session: This session was more of the first, I was forgetting about the bike now and trying to learn the track... which in it self was pretty hard as there are about 13 turns on a non-undulating track so every corner kind of looks the same. I focused on being smooth and I have to say had no issues (chattering) without the slipper clutch even though I never blipped the throttle ( because I don't know how too), seems the v's handle rearing down allot better than the 4's do, maybe because they rev lower.

By session three I was back to business and was even keeping up with a few of the usual track day hooligans on more track focused bikes... hanging off, knees out waiting for that all to familiar scrape on the knee.. BUT then it all came to an end... went toward a pretty fast right hander and then... NO BRAKES!! Luckily I was not going to crazy and just tipped the bike in.. Handled it like it was on rails... but unfortunately that was the end of any track record attempts... (I wish) I finished the session with no brakes, focussed on some lines and gave myself a quick California track school refresher..lol

During the break I asked around, seems the issue is my brake pads, (presume they are the standard ones as I don’t think they would have been changed as the bike only has 6000 km's on it.) Seems without sintered pads (which I always fit) the pads get too hot and boil the brake fluid which in turn affects its performance.

Session 4 – With my new knowledge, I thought I would go out and save the brakes for the 2 high speed corners... not luck, seems they were just too unpredictable to try. So the end of session 4 and my final session 5 were just spent learning the track and building some confidence I had lost in the last few months...

I have to say the low light came when a Ducati and Bmw both passed me, I didn’t tell them I had no brakes. That satisfaction will come next time we meet on track …which will hopefully be VERY SOON...

SD Final Track verdict = LOADS OF FUN!!

Yup, had my SD at the track for the first time this year too. Loved it! Love being different and not having a cookie cutter jap bike. Though I hated being passed on the straights by the litre bikes, but the SD could out run the 600's, so I'm happy. My track is small and tight too, perfect for a big V-Twin.

nice write up... makes me want to go try it now... but i was talking to mrZ32 today about hill climbs in brisbane

Thanks guy, The bike was a real surprise and I can't wait to get it on the track again... Hope the brake pads were my issue, hopfully somone else can confirm that it is my issue.. I also see most threads here say you should go for a "stiffer" spring not "lighter" so i'm a bit confused... Any input here guys?? Whats the std spring? I weigh around 80kgs.

Glad you had fun. Its a fun bike, pretty much for any paved surface duty you put it to.

First - DO NOT EVEN LOOK at RaceTech's spring calculator. For anything. EVER. Its exceptionally wrong for the SD. And, so that they can sell you some spring that is convenient to their inventory, internal fork modifications (machining) are needed to use the front springs RaceTech sells. Like everyone else, they of course want to sell you their magical pistons, needles, valve bodies, etc.

At 175 Lbs (80Kg - w/o gear - ?), the 9.5 fronts should be close (enough - 10.0 might be better ...), and in back, well maybe a 18.0 (off an SDR). Lighter rear spring than the stock 17.0 - don't think so ...

You can't compare your rear spring to that of an RC8 - as it has a linkage in its rear suspension, which has a mechanical advantage ... where the SD/SDR do not.

As for brake pads: the OEM brake pads are sintered metallic HH pads. IMO, suitable for most trackday applications. Seriously folks - the OEM SD/SDR brakes are damn good as-is. The SD isn't insane fast, so you're never really having to slow from faster than about 140+ mph or so. The only step up is full-on sintered race pads. But then, I don't know the course you're running on ...

Fluid boil - certainly can happen, and the older the juice, the more likely. I'm kind of religious about brake fluid: its the one thing I change before every trackday. And I use a fluid that is not only fairly heat tolerant, but also less hygroscopic (propensity to absorb water - an artifact of all glycol brake fluids) than most: ATE Super Blue Racing Brake Fluid.

On the artifact of downshifting - you must be blipping the throttle (even if not conscious of it), and/or easing that clutch out slooooooowly - or the SD hops like a motherfucker. LOL - maybe you're just backing it in. OK - I'm presuming that your corner entries don't consist of you pulling in the clutch, dropping the throttle, downshifting, then costing into the corner.

As an owner of a few twins and I4s (with slipper clutches on all but one), the V-twins (pre-slippers) are the most sensitive WRT to not rev matching, and benefit most from slipper clutches (and I rev match - blip - for every downshift, not to say I don't fook them up on occasion). This is because per cylinder stroke, each piton moves 2X the gas of an identical displacement/compression I4. So, on the twin, for each rotation of the crank, you get 1/2 the piston strokes, but twice the compression braking per cylinder (more abrupt). I4s are much MUCH more tolerant of errant clutch/throttle use when downshifting.

An extension of this, is that you can get excellent compression braking from the SuperDuke from rev matching, which can relieve your brakes somewhat.

Probably repeating what's already been said here but....

SD brakes very, very good as standard IMO. Track days, as opposed to actual racing, are not much more punishing than fast road riding and I've never heard of SD brakes failing before. Must have been low on fluid or old fluid or something, it's not the brakes themselves. You didn't say how they failed, did the lever come into the bars without effect or just go spongy or what?

The White spring on the standard SD, 175, is good for a rider with kit up to about 15 stone max. Sorry, can't think in kilos. The set up work I've done with suspension outfits tells me that at that weight the static sag that's needed means that the spring is set to almost maximum compression. If you are over that weigh then changing to an orange SDR spring, 180, is better for track use and the static sag is at the other end of the compression adjustment. I'm hovering around this weight fully kitted up and my White spring is better for road use and my orange spring is better for track.

Glad you liked tracking the bike, for me going on track days has changed a lot about my enjoyment of owning this bike. It's a chance for it to do Another thing well, not just a "hooning about" bike and a sportsbike killer on the back roads but also a serious tool for going fast and it's made me appreciate the bike a lot more as well as making me a far better rider.

Thin pads will transfer more heat to the calipers and brake fluid causing the brakes to fade. Keep the pads above 50%, the fluid fresh (a few bleeds per year), and all should be well.

With a fresh fluid change even my gf's Ninja 650 had brake failure at the track thanks to worn pads.

Thanks for all the imput, seems the consensis is that the rear spring should be fine.. I have an expert suspension guy up the road so I'll take it too him and compare the recommendations.. Bike set up actually feels good, but the rear is really "springy" and i'm sure if i have a mini rear slide i will be launched meters into the air..

As for the brakes.. i am really worried.. I was hoping you guys would confirm that it is the brake pads.. the pads have about 5mm on each pad and I changed the fluid around 1000kms ago... I have 2 finger levers so what happend was that the lever just pulled to the bar like i had a leak!

DAM!

I use DOT 4 racing fluid, I'm a bit lazy and only change it once or twice a year.
Always use stock brembo pads.

Never found any problems even at tracks that are hard on brakes.

You must have air in there, or, a problem somewhere.

I'm using dot 5.1 motul brake fluid

I Don't mind the Blue hue of the ATE fluid, I just wanted to know if it was safe to flush the original and use it, thanks....I just went out and bought it, I was even surprised to find it here, it was $ 13.25 USD for the 1 litre can, tell you the truth....I din't think it was higly priced or anything, so I'll be flushing the SD tomorrow

I see Viking also had an issue before :

"Had a small issue with the brakes where the lever seemed to fade, but then come back for a while, then fade again. Checked it out today, running standard pads that looked a bit low so fitted a set of Carbon Lorraines (love these pads) and flushed new fluid through the system."

Hey buddy. Got your PM.

With your rear shock i'd have a look at the damping. Set comp and rebound as per the handbook and try it from there n adjust as req'd. I run high speed 1 turn out from full hard though. It felt like it wanted to slide on the rear when at lean in a corner when i ran it on standard.

I'm almost 14 stone kitted up and the white spring is fine, can easily get static and rider sags set.


With the brakes. The bike comes with sintered Brembo's as standard. The guys in the Superduke battle ran standard pads. The front of the grid were lapping 1 second off the pace of the winning superstock 600 bike at the Knockhill BSB meeting.

My problem was the fluid was a bit old and the pads were getting worn. The more worn down the pads are the more it seems to transfer the heat into the calipers and overheat the fluid. I use Carbon Lorraines becuse it ran them on all my other bikes and really like the feel. Overall stopping power is no different, but they bite a little better, give more feel at the lever, and stay a bit more consistent through the temp ranges.

I use standard dot 4 fluid. Nothing special, it's car stuff i get free from work. Just flush it out before each trackday and never have any probs. It probably doesn't need it but for the sake of a 1/4 litre it's worth doing. I suck the old fluid out the resevoir with a syringe, then add new stuff and gently bleed it through starting at the master cylinder and then doing right caliper and finish at left.

I'm sure the fast guys on here like Ducati Pete, Jody, etc all run standard brakes too.

Thanks Viking Gues i'll tty new pads and hope that sorts out the issue.They are a bit worn so may be the issue.. will keep you guys posted!!!

Fitted Ebc race pads today... Feels like it has more bite.. Think the old pads may be a bit glazed... Booked for Kyalami Saterday... GOING TO BE A CRACKER!!

Did you sort out the fluid too?

Nope.. fluid is ony a 2 months old... I presume it will be fine

I would suggest you at least bleed the system. If it's been boiled already it's likely to act up again.

Better to spend a hour now than to find you have brake problems at the track again.

Thanks for the heads up... i will do it.