Clutch adjustment (the Suter chronicles)

I fitted a new set of friction plates into the Suter clutch to see if this was the reason it was slipping but they didn't cure the slip under power - I wasn't really surprised because the old pack wasn't measuring under spec. anyway, for those of you not following that long, tedious thread, the slip was cured by fitting a stronger main spring into the clutch which can deal with the power. Klinky has done the same thing with good results.

But, although the clutch is now working fine now it engages far to soon when you let the clutch lever out.

Is there a simple way to adjust this? The only way I could test ride the clutch was to use my ASV lever span adjuster to move the lever as far away from the bar as possible so the travel was maximised but even with this the clutch engages immediately you start letting the lever out.

This morning I got up at 4.30 and have done the following:

1. Completely bled the clutch hydraulics, master and slave cylinder with new oil. This seemed the obvious answer. Made no difference.
2. Disassembled the clutch for the 50th time and reassembled it. Made no difference.
3. Changed back all the new friction plates for the old ones. Made no difference.

I'm at a loss.

Something has happened to change the way the lever, hydraulics, pushrod, clutch basket, main spring operate and I don't know what.

Any thoughts?

Damn Bic...
I keep thinkin' it's gonna be just perfect each
time you make yet another go at it...My thoughts..Since
I haven't changed into my slipper as yet..(DrSwade sorry)
But I changed out my slave to the Oberon slave cylinder...
I thought it was me...but the OEM slave was leaking down...
After I changed it...Bled it down as usual..BUT...it started
acting up and had to click up the lever adjuster...
Got home and what fixed it was a tiny bubble at the lever/master
cylinder...I had to do it twice after installing the new Oberon unit...
I bled it from the tiny fitting at teh master/lever unti..
I don't know what you have..Stock unit or what...Just food for thought bro...
I have the Sutter hub ready for me to order the rest of the bits....
My question is..
Knowing how Nerds lever pull was...Having the 1400 diaphram plate...
How does the 1500 Diaphram feel on the lever pull..????
AND...which slipper plate are you running now...??????
SURE hope you get it sorted.!!! I imagine you are having bad dreams
and doing it in your sleep as of late...
Cheers bro...!!!
IF I were in your neighborhood...
I'd buy you a brew or three and blow off some steam...
It's GOTTA be more than pissin you off..

I bled mine just before Cadders on Wed and found tiny bubbles in the master cylinder.

For me the 1500 spring feels no different to the 1310 one. Clutch does engage a little earlier with the Suter but nothing that is a problem.

It is odd that you are getting these problems. I wonder if its some part that has worn? What did David think when you spoke to him?

Omky, thanks mate for your sympathy!

I have an Oberon slave cylinder fitter also. Bled it right through this morning but from the bottom valve on the slave. I have plenty of Magura fluid so will have a go at bleeding from the top later. It does seem to me that bleeding the hydraulics would be the cure for this.

Like Klink says, the feel of the 1500nm main spring is hardly different from the standard one. It's definitely stronger but the only time you'd ever really feel it is if you were riding very slowly through town and having to slip the clutch all the time in first.

I've got the middle strength slipper spring fitted, can't remember the nm rating.

I haven't got hold of David yet, if I can't fix this issue I'll talk to him next week.

At least we have the solution to clutch slip though.

When I snapped off my clutch line, my clutch felt really odd until I bled the master cylinder at the top. Try the old trick of running tube in to the fluid reservior from the bleed nipple at the top, worked a treat for me. I don't have a slipper but must be the same principle.

I really hope you get it sorted soon Bic.

Just come back from bleeding the clutch master cylinder from the top. A few little bubbles came out, not too many. Did it cure the issue? No

There was an appreciable difference in pull at the lever between the spring the Suter clutch kit came with, and the 1400N I ended up putting in. The 1400 was more like the OEM clutch. I could go through the exercise (and have the equipment/tools) to determine the pull differences in a measured quantity, but its pointless.

I'm of the school that the lighter the pull, the better. My SD is not my track bike. Everyday street ride. And by street, that's mostly urban, non-freeway miles. Of course, there are the sorties through the twisty bits. That said, its a function of what you can get away with (what ensures consistent engagement of the clutch), given mods, typical riding application, and what have you. In other words, one has to suffer whatever works, regardless what they might prefer.

Being serious now, the Sigma I had on my old GSXR 750 did make the clutch grabby and hard to launch the bike from a standstill compared to the standard clutch,
fiddling with the manual clutch adjuster made no difference to the grabiness it just moved the biting point around

Not sure how you're going about this Bic, but mineral oil is almost impossible to bleed from the bottom (slave cylinder).

Inject oil into to slave cylinder bleed nipple with a large syringe and rubber line. This will force any air bubbles back through the line to the reservoiur. Have the top off to let the pressure out. You may need to do this a couple times to make sure you got all the bubbles.

When you get a reasonable lever feel, crack the bleeder at the master cylinder and slowly pull the lever in to release the air trapped there.

If this doesn't give you full lever travel and a firm lever, you still got air. Start again.

My Suter so far is seamless. Launch is perfect although the clutch bites a little sooner on release. Other than that it feel pretty much the same as OEM setting off.

I will give the clutch another bleed tomorrow if I get the time. Convinced this is the problem. Never tried the syringe method although seen it documented on this site somewhere. Need to find a 'big syringe' though. Where does one get them from on a bank holiday weekend?

Just a quick question for Klinky or anyone else who has fitted a Suter clutch recently. Below is a picture showing the clutch pack placed into the basket before the outer pressure plate is screwed on. This was taken before I replaced the friction plates with a new set. You can see that the last friction plate sits into the clutch with the outer set of teeth engaged into the slots on the outer basket. This last plate goes more or less half way down the slot.

Question is how far did your last plate sit into this slot? From a picture Klink posted it looks like it's about the same as my picture? Can you remember? And was it easy to start the six M5 bolts to hold on the pressure plate?


But now my last plate only just manages to engage into the slot on the outer basket. This makes it hard to get the six bolts to take up the thread when I'm trying to screw on the pressure plate. I also think this has something to do with my strange clutch lever action and inability to fully disengage the clutch. Before any of you say.............I have swapped over and tried the original old friction plates and they too now result in the last plate being further out than the above picture.

It doesn't make sense. Or I'm going mad.

I'm sitting here at work thinking that I might have - somehow - counted in one too many plates and have a clutch pack that is deeper than it should be. I will check when I get home. If I have I'm the biggest plonker in the world.

my Sutter setup looks similar to the picture you posted above from a dimension perspective ...
Engaging the M5 bolts was easy ...

I put mine in both ways. I didn't see how it would make a difference since they are all captive in the same basket.
I didn't notice any difference.

Mine looked very similar to that m8. I have to push the pressure plate in with a bit of force to get it far enough in to start the threads as the clutch rod pushes out. Other than that I went a a step clockwise with the last plate but I can't see how that would make any difference.

Just fired her up. Seems to have done the trick!

Clutch lever does engage a bit earlier than before but I think that this has got to do with the new plates combined with the stronger main spring. Klinky says his was the same when he re-assembled his clutch with this same spring. Anyway, it's perfectly ridable now and I'll probably just get used to the new biting point.

Good news dude! Does make you wonder where these bubbles hide sometimes Looks like a dry day so hope you can get out and have some fun!

What is the order of the friction plates please ?
I'm fitting mine tomorrow.
Mine from outer to inner are marked. A23. A2 6. A2 6. A2 6. A2 6. A25. A25. A2 6. A2 6. A23 Also do the outers have to face a certain way ? Numbers facing the outside or anything.
It's a 2nd hand unit so could be in the wrong order.

Phil

LOL they have to go in in an order?? Didn't see that in the Suter instructions. I just slap them in and turn the last one so it slots into the steels slot.

Have a look at the OE parts fiche first as there are two types of friction plates, all of one type except last one which, as CK says, should be rotated by one slot - don't know Suters but for Sigma, there's a different start order as well - afaik there's no inner/outer/right/wrong face for friction plates.

HaHa That would be my normal method of fitting a clutch pack Klinck
Thought I'd read on here, someone fitted the wrong outers (23) and chewed up their pressure plate ?

Anyhoo. Cunning plan 2, simply see what order they're in the standard one.... Nope. inner to outer = 8xA28, 2xA27 + an A23 great.

Will do 47, though it looks like I'll just mix n match to get the pack height spot on, and keep the 23s on the outer faces.

Thanks for the replies

Phil