Hi guys what is the maximum RPM the rev limiter can be set at??
What is a SD-R set at??
What is a SD-R set at??
Max RPM limiter
23 posts · Started by indy84 · 09 Jun 2011
Post 2 by Bert,
#2I've changed mine (an 06) to 9800.
If I'm not mistaken the SD-R default is 10250.
If I'm not mistaken the SD-R default is 10250.
Post 3 by MrZ32,
#3Yeah mate, drop by... Will raise the limiter for you. Wouldn't go much higher than 9900 sets from memory have light rods or pistons... So they can rev higher than our bikes. Mine revs to 9800 so no reason to go more for u
Post 4 by indy84,
#4Post missing
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Post 5 by indy84,
#5Borrowed MrZ's laptop and cable to set my limiter to ...9900...
It was at 9600.. the 300rpm has made a surprizing differance... that few extra revs stops me from hitting the limiter and losing speed
I'd also say that 9600 is all good with a standard engine but with opening the air box, exhaust and breathing...
... the duke likes being able to rev higher
It was at 9600.. the 300rpm has made a surprizing differance... that few extra revs stops me from hitting the limiter and losing speed
I'd also say that 9600 is all good with a standard engine but with opening the air box, exhaust and breathing...
... the duke likes being able to rev higher
Post 6 by MrZ32,
#6Its all good as long as the bottom end is as strong as the 08 model
Post 7 by indy84,
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Post 8 by MrZ32,
#8That I know of... Nothing. Just the cams and timing
Post 9 by indy84,
#9im going to find out about getting the light rods and the flywheels can be lightened and balanced... more revs
Post 10 by MrZ32,
#10Lighter rods and a balanced crankshaft will do that but your cams are not designed to work in that type of rev range... So re ground cams too. Or just get an sdr as those are the characteristics that you seem to be chasing. Or a streetfighter
Post 11 by indy84,
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Post 12 by loony888,
#12from what i've read the earlier bike has the more "lively" cams, with the 07 on bike tamed down a bit, except for the SDR. the bottom end is the same on all of them though and i had mine dynamically balanced before reassembly, it was pretty good to begin with and seeing as i kept the std pistons and rods there was some removed from the crank webbing to get it right but not a huge amount (read 1kg from my 888 crank to compensate for carrillo rods, wiseco hi comp pistons, sps flywheel, slipper clutch, lightened primary etc) which made a huge difference, whether the SD will be as impressive i'm not sure but it will rev out faster and smoother with the balancing done.
paul.
paul.
Post 13 by indy84,
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Post 14 by TLS_Russ,
#14Hi, dont want to highjack the thread but I have a question for the Tuneecu experts;
I have a PC111 with a custom map, i dont want to change to Tuneecu but can the rev limit be raised with Tuneecu without affecting the PC111 map?
Reason; I keep hitting the limiter when really going for it, the motor is still making power when it hits the limiter so impossible to get a feel for it without watching the tacho, I have changed the gearing from 16/38 to 17/40 but it made no difference, 1st to 4th gear still hits the limiter too quick,
would be much kinder to the motor to have a slight over rev capacity!
I have a PC111 with a custom map, i dont want to change to Tuneecu but can the rev limit be raised with Tuneecu without affecting the PC111 map?
Reason; I keep hitting the limiter when really going for it, the motor is still making power when it hits the limiter so impossible to get a feel for it without watching the tacho, I have changed the gearing from 16/38 to 17/40 but it made no difference, 1st to 4th gear still hits the limiter too quick,
would be much kinder to the motor to have a slight over rev capacity!
Post 15 by indy84,
#15Post missing
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Post 16 by MrZ32,
#16yes ofcourse you can do that... all you are doing is adjusting the base map so that it has a broader parameters (in this case rpm)... all the pc3 is is a piggy back for the base map 'correcting' what the ecu is telling the injector to do.
my only concern with this is that (and this will be the same for everyone who has done this inc. you indy) is that the pc3 map only went to the origional rpm... so although the bike may need to richen itself up at the rpm above the old limiter, there is now no map available for that rpm (in the pc3, as the parameter of the standard map goes to around 10500rpm). So you are suddenly running lean when the most force is occuring in the engine.
Centripital force= (mass*velocity^2)/radius, so increasing the rev limit by 300rpm or 5 revolutions per second may not sound like too much but obviously the rotating parts velocity has been increase (velocity all depend also on the radius of the 'center of mass' as a basic calc which is why longer stroke engines cannot rev as hard as the piston has to travel at a higher velocity to achieve one revolution) so you can see that a small increase is greatly effected by slightly increasing the velocity of the item... which puts more strain on the engine, increasing the failure rate of the items etc..
you can also see that lighter rods and pistons will aid in less force on the items... but the effect is marginal as it is only a linear relationship (not exponential). ok normally us engineers will include a safety factor of 9-14 for a moving item like this but this is also to allow for the probability of a deffective item in the engine as well as the fatiguing that occurs over time... so an engineer can say that i am 99.99% confident that in 99.99% of the cases this motor will not fail (yes a confidence of a confidence)... which is a big thing considering that a rod or piston in the wrong direction would kill you instantly.
So my question in it really worth eating into that safety margin and engine longetivity when all it requires is for you to shift slightly earlier (train your self so it is muscle memory)? This is all compounded to... as when we start getting more hp out of our engine... we are also eating into this safety factor. But in the end the real killer is how fast the engine spins.
POINT IS
yes hitting the limiter isnt great for an engine but hitting the limiter at a higher rpm is much worse... and if you keep on hitting the limiter now, will you really learn to shift were you are hitting the limiter now or will you start hitting the new limiter... change your riding style... learn to use the torque of the motor too. And if you are concerned with losing energy on the shift, get a quickshifter... it is incredible how much this increases accellaration... i know because i have one and i have not increased my rev limit.
ok now back onto topic... russ, yes you can do it if you want to... as pc3 is only a piggy back... however if you are doing this anyway why not just cut the weak point out and incorporate your pc3 map into tune ecu? I get why people have a thing about this. you are still changing your base map when you raise the limit so why not just incorporate the pc3 map with the base map at the same time.
only advantage of pc3 is that it is slightly easier to tune... but not 400 odd dollars harder (find the decent tuner and you will be fine)
my only concern with this is that (and this will be the same for everyone who has done this inc. you indy) is that the pc3 map only went to the origional rpm... so although the bike may need to richen itself up at the rpm above the old limiter, there is now no map available for that rpm (in the pc3, as the parameter of the standard map goes to around 10500rpm). So you are suddenly running lean when the most force is occuring in the engine.
Centripital force= (mass*velocity^2)/radius, so increasing the rev limit by 300rpm or 5 revolutions per second may not sound like too much but obviously the rotating parts velocity has been increase (velocity all depend also on the radius of the 'center of mass' as a basic calc which is why longer stroke engines cannot rev as hard as the piston has to travel at a higher velocity to achieve one revolution) so you can see that a small increase is greatly effected by slightly increasing the velocity of the item... which puts more strain on the engine, increasing the failure rate of the items etc..
you can also see that lighter rods and pistons will aid in less force on the items... but the effect is marginal as it is only a linear relationship (not exponential). ok normally us engineers will include a safety factor of 9-14 for a moving item like this but this is also to allow for the probability of a deffective item in the engine as well as the fatiguing that occurs over time... so an engineer can say that i am 99.99% confident that in 99.99% of the cases this motor will not fail (yes a confidence of a confidence)... which is a big thing considering that a rod or piston in the wrong direction would kill you instantly.
So my question in it really worth eating into that safety margin and engine longetivity when all it requires is for you to shift slightly earlier (train your self so it is muscle memory)? This is all compounded to... as when we start getting more hp out of our engine... we are also eating into this safety factor. But in the end the real killer is how fast the engine spins.
POINT IS
yes hitting the limiter isnt great for an engine but hitting the limiter at a higher rpm is much worse... and if you keep on hitting the limiter now, will you really learn to shift were you are hitting the limiter now or will you start hitting the new limiter... change your riding style... learn to use the torque of the motor too. And if you are concerned with losing energy on the shift, get a quickshifter... it is incredible how much this increases accellaration... i know because i have one and i have not increased my rev limit.
ok now back onto topic... russ, yes you can do it if you want to... as pc3 is only a piggy back... however if you are doing this anyway why not just cut the weak point out and incorporate your pc3 map into tune ecu? I get why people have a thing about this. you are still changing your base map when you raise the limit so why not just incorporate the pc3 map with the base map at the same time.
only advantage of pc3 is that it is slightly easier to tune... but not 400 odd dollars harder (find the decent tuner and you will be fine)
Post 17 by loony888,
#17Post missing
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Post 18 by TLS_Russ,
#18Post missing
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Post 19 by MrZ32,
#19Post missing
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Post 20 by Jermo,
#20About the PCIII map when raising the max RPM:
I've worked with the dyno a few times myself (installing and tuning PCIII's and RB's on several bikes) and usually you adjust the map till well over the motors max RPM to be sure by simply using the latest tested number in the column. In case this isn't done, adjust this yourself (download the PC commander program and plug in the PC using a USB cable) by simply filling the 40%-100% throttle opening columns till well over the max RPM using the latest number known in the column. This way you know for sure you can't be far off the ideal mixture.
The high RPM- and throttle position part is the easiest to adjust and isn't all that precise
I've worked with the dyno a few times myself (installing and tuning PCIII's and RB's on several bikes) and usually you adjust the map till well over the motors max RPM to be sure by simply using the latest tested number in the column. In case this isn't done, adjust this yourself (download the PC commander program and plug in the PC using a USB cable) by simply filling the 40%-100% throttle opening columns till well over the max RPM using the latest number known in the column. This way you know for sure you can't be far off the ideal mixture.
The high RPM- and throttle position part is the easiest to adjust and isn't all that precise
Post 21 by MrZ32,
#21Post missing
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Post 22 by TLS_Russ,
#22Post missing
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Post 23 by TLS_Russ,
#23So, anyone know a good dyno centre that uses PC and Tuneecu?
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