Using PCV/Autotune on 2007 SD

Does anyone know if the PCV and single-channel Autotune will work on the 2007 SD?

I noticed that DynoJet Research website recommends fitment of the PCIII on 2006 and 2007 models; and fitment of the PCV on 2008 – 2011 models. I ask a DynoJet tech if they knew of any specific reason that the PCV (and Autotune) would not work on the 2007? (ie, did KTM make hardware, programming or connector changes between 2007 and 2008 model years?) DynoJet responded…..”they’re not too familiar with that model…they see no reason why it should not work…but, if I installed the PCV on my 07, they could not support it.” (whatever that means)

So…does anyone here know a more definitive answer??? Thanks!

I asked them the same question I didn't get a reply. But from earlier posts ,someone from his forum has been doing work with bazzaz on making an auto-tune unit for the SD that myself would interested in. I think it's only a couple months old if anyone could shed more light on it? I too have an 07 and would like an auto-tuning system that I can just plug and play.

Thanks Nitro. I run the PCV dual channel wide band Autotune on my XR1200 and it was plug and play. It works great...what a pleasure fueling to desired AFR's vs. arbitrary fuel trim values. I keep my SD "mechanically" stock. My GOAL is to finially eliminate the off-idle snatch of that ECU. Terrible in town, or with a passinger, or running10/10 in the technical twisties. It's like the ECM shuts off the injectors completely under trailing throttle, then they come back on abruptly powering out of your line. Real darn nice feeling when your tyre is at the edge of it's coeffiecient of friction! Maybe I'll just cheap out and get the IIIusb, run a "stock" map, eliminate the sensors, fatten the low fueling...and hope that will outsmart the stock ECM. (I guess i could stick a single channel wide-back on it and monitor it with an LCD, just to understand the AFR.)

Hmmmmmmm ... ...

Hmmmmmm, SDNerd. Here are 3 of about 10 things they said they could do, all based on customer request:

* Reduce Excessive Engine Braking/Improved Deceleration
* Improved Throttle Control & Reaction
* Remove Injector Shut-Off on Deceleration

Looks like that's exactly what I said my goal was. Just might have to look into this further. Thanks!

Research has been done in the surging issue of the SD.
Couple of facts. The main issue is that the closed loop greenie bits tries to lean it out as much as possible to stay EU compliant. Then the sensors tell the ECU it runs lean and it pumps in more fuel.
When you close the throttle it also opens the SAS which pulses fresh air in to the exhaust and the O2 sensors tell the ECU again it is running lean so more fuel goes in when you open the loud handle again.

There is only one proper way to get rid of this hunting properly and all on here who tried will aggree.
a get rid of the O2 sensors either by switching it off in tuneecu or fitting the eliminator plugs.
b get rid of the SAS crap by switching it off in tuneecu blocking the hoses off and or disconnecting the hoses, fit plates etc...
c get rid of the original exhaust or take the cat out as otherwise it will foul up if you do the above modifications.
d get rid of the secondary butterflies helps also but didn't made the biggest difference for me.
e get a proper map that fits your bike either by downloading a few from the forum that suit the year and setup of your machine or better get a custom map done on a dyno.
A different air filter also helps but again more performance orientated than actually fixing it but it clears up the dodgy fuelling.

My bike was dreadfull new, impossible to ride at town speeds without a chiropractor fixing my neck every 15 minutes (yes that bad!!!)
After I done these mods it is smooth as now, no throttle cams or other stuff needed.

Thanks mate! I remember on my 950 Adventure, that I removed the SAS with block off plates, went from 42 to 45 pilot jets, de-can (of course) and it was spot-on off-idle. Of course it was carbureted. I guess I should do it on the SD990 also, but I dont want an ECU fault. Someone would have to tell me what to buy and the proceedure.

I was on a dynojet dyno yesterday, my bike is a 07 sdr with pcv fitted.
Yes you can fit the auto tune sensors but you would really need to fit one for each cylinder or it would not really work that well with only one fitted.

One in each header where your 02 sensors were, the pcv has two inputs for the sensors

so as i understand it.. even though dynojet says they "don't support it" for the 07 SD. you can use a pcv with a dual channel autotune and expect optimum results for you bike setup without the need for a dyno? i like that idea but have a few concerns understaning why dynojet would not support as suggested from an earlier conversation.

doon does your ride have the autotune or do you just run the pcv?

I have the pcv installed and tuned on a dynojet dyno yesterday, I had a pcv on my hypermotard with auto tune installed but with only one sensor.
You really need two installed on a v twin though
You buy the 2008 sdr pcv which fits 06 upward I think.
model 18-002.
Plugs straight on with no problems!

I'm the guy with the Bazzaz system. I just checked the Bazzaz.net website and the SD was listed as a part of the product line. http://www.bazzaz.net/index.php?page=sh ... Itemid=181

Here is the post where we discussed the Bazzaz system. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17936&p=209079&hilit=Bazzaz#p209079

The Bazzaz is a single channel system. It does self tune (that's a separate add-on). Its pretty simple to understand. My bike runs great, she pulls hard in 3rd gear from 35 mph to 100 mph. No more searching at low speeds, no jerky throttle and improved gas mileage to boot.

Hi, yes it went good.
Gained 9ft lbs and 9 hp.
Looking at doing the auto tune thing next.
We did a base run with the triangles closed and with them open, with them open we gained 3 ft lbs and 2 hp.

Just installed PCV and two-channel AutoTune (AT-300) on my 07 SD. Checked the factory-installed target AFR values, expecting to find something similar to what's pictured in the AutoTune documentation, which shows separate target AFR tables and separate trim tables for each cylinder. Instead, I found a single target AFR table that's clearly being used for both cylinders, although there are indeed separate trim tables for each cylinder (in addition to the cylinder-specific base-map fuel tables). And, yes, I did configure the PCV software for using both new O2 sensors.

Also, going by the AutoTune documentation, I expected the target AFR table that I found would be filled with a generic array of AFR values that I could tweak if I wanted to, but instead all cells contain zeros. I haven't ridden the bike since installing these units, since I didn't know what to make of these deviations from what was shown in the documentation -- I wondered if they might mean something is wrong with the units or the installation, or if I need to manually enter a complete table of target AFR values. Obviously, I don't want the AutoTune working toward AFR's of zero! As I understand it, these target AFR values are supposed to represent the actual desired ratios (e.g. 14 for 14:1), not percentage adjustments (as in the trim and base-map fuel tables). I did, however, confirm that the bike would start with everything installed; it ran fine at idle.

Has anyone using the dual-channel AutoTune unit made these same discoveries?

I actually don't understand why anyone would want separate target AFR tables for each cylinder in the first place. While the cylinders may each need slightly different fueling to work best, wouldn't the same target AFR's apply for both? Don't the differences in fuel maps and/or trim values simply reflect the fact that no two cylinders are functioning at exactly the same temperature, with exactly the same air flow, etc., so each needs different fueling to arrive at the same target AFR? Or is there really a need for unique target AFR tables for each cylinder?

Dynojet is infamous for lousy instructions, and I guess this may just be one more example. Perhaps the only thing wrong here is the picture they put in the documentation, and the inadequate explanation.

When you install a PCIII or PCV the tables are indeed all at zero unless you have the dealer load a map for you in the unit.
I had a quick read trough the autotune manual and came up with the following:
The ratio can be adjusted per cell if you want and you do that in the AFR target map.
I believe autotune needs to be switched on before you can do that but I could be wrong, as you say the manual is not very clear sometimes.

Regarding different target ratios per cylinder it does make sense. Some cylinders you want to keep slightly cooler and run a bit more fuel in it. Typically the rear cylinder of a V twin or the inside cylinders of a IL4. Also sometimes V twin cylinders have different inlet and exhaust lenghts and different fuel ratios are applied to compensate for that, like ducati's for example.

Edit: Keep in mind that PC uses front cylinder 1 and rear 2 where KTM and Tuneecu front is 2 and rear is one! Very important if you want to import your PC map later in Tuneecu!

Thanks for your thoughts, ktmguy. However, I don't think we're talking about the same thing. The tables I'm concerned about that were all zeros were for the target AFR's, which exist ONLY in the AutoTune-enabled setup. The PCV itself did indeed arrive with two cylinder-specific base-map grids loaded with zeros, but after I installed Dynojet's SD base-map those cells contained an assortment of small numbers scattered throughout. Those numbers represent specific percentage modifications to the ECU's map, not target AFR's - though presumably those percentage modifications are aimed at achieving some AFR targets Dynojet used in creating that base-map. The AutoTune documentation talks about target AFR maps from Dynojet that can be modified; it doesn't say anything about creating one from nothing. But since the AutoTune unit is not bike-specific, it's unclear how such a map would be loaded - it didn't come with anything installed already, and there's no instruction for loading a target AFR map, only loading those base-maps into the PCV that make percentage modifications to the ECU's map. If I have to enter all the target AFR values to get started, that's fine - I just wish they'd say so clearly.

And, as for the different target ratios per cylinder, I'm not sure I follow you. I understand that you could augment cooling in a cylinder that typically runs hotter by increasing the fuel delivered to it, but do you really end up with a richer AFR, or does it simply take more fuel to achieve the same AFR as you've got in the cooler cylinder? The same could hold true for airflow factors. In other words, a freer flowing cylinder might need a longer injection pulse (a higher number on the base-map or the trim table) to compensate for the larger amount of air available for combustion, but it could end up with the same target AFR as the less free flowing cylinder. Maybe this is confusing me because it can go either way: in some cases more fuel simply offsets more air and the AFR remains the same, but in other cases a genuine difference in AFR is required.

Sorry if I'm being a pain in the ass on this, but I really want to understand it better and I don't know any other way of figuring out exactly how my thinking is wrong here. Thanks for your patience!

Regardless of this theoretical stuff, I'm still wondering why the documentation shows separate target AFR tables for each cylinder, but my unit's display only shows one for both cylinders.

Regarding the AFR figures. I would expect Dynojet to load something in there to be on the safe side like 13.5 everywhere or so.
Obviously they didn't. I will be able to tell you more later as I have a PCV with autotune ordered for my TE450 Husky, once I have a play with that I can give you more info.
For now load a general AFR like 13.2, this is the standard figure dynojet reccomends I believe for the SD. This is the figure tuners use as a start when they dyno the SD too.
It is supposed to give good power and reasonable fuel economy.
You can later refine this by putting less fuel in at low throttle openings to increase economy, like AFR 14 or so.

Keep in mind that the SAS needs to be switched off or blocked if you use autotune!!!!!
Do this by either switching it off in tuneecu (you need to upload the map and make sure it is off!!) blocking the hoses or fitting the plates. If not autotune will not work properly due to the SAS injecting air in to the exhaust and trowing the sensor and the numbers off.

BTW dual autotune on the SD is deffo the way to go!

ktmguy - Thanks for the reminders about turning things off and the cylinder swap business; I've been using TuneECU happily for a little while now and all those things were done. Also, thanks for the recommendation for a general starting point for my target AFR's. I'm going to use that setting and take her out for a little test ride today.

kowekiller - I don't know about the SDR coil issue, but I can tell you that my brand new PCV box (part #18-002) clearly indicates that the unit is for both SD's and SDR's. I'd think that if there really were a problem fitting these to SDR's, they'd have changed the box label by now, but I can't say for sure. Also, on the Dynojet webpage where this unit's base-maps are available for download, they list these two options: SD with stock airbox and stock exhaust, and SDR with LeoVince slip-ons and stock air filter. Then again, Dynojet isn't very meticulous about the information it publishes; note these examples: a) only the PCIII is listed as fitting the '07 SD, when the PCV definitely fits, b) only the single-channel AutoTune is listed as fitting later SD's, when the dual-channel definitely fits, and c) in addition to multiple inadequacies in the text, every page of the PCV user's guide says "PCIII USB User's Guide" at the bottom. I guess if your company is successful enough with sloppy attention to detail, there's little reason to put forth the effort needed to clean things up. The PCV wiring harness plugs in between each coil and the bike's wires to them - fitment may have more to do with whether these connectors are the same on SD's and SDR's, rather than whether the coils themselves are the same.

Please if you can take a picture for me of the top of your coil on the rear cylinder. I am certain that your SDR has different coil sticks( the same as and SD) . If your PCV plugs directly into the top of the coil sticks the you have standard SD coils. If you have a lead coming off the coil and the PCV plugs in about 6" away from the coil the you have the SDR coils. Your bike may odd due to the fact that most SDR's are with the coil packs with 6" leads coming off the top of the coil stick then to a plug. I,ve been working with Dynojet on this problem and would really like a picture of your coil stick so we can get some more accurate info on what fits what. Thanks

Ventured out with my freshly installed PC-V and dual-channel AutoTune for the first time today, and WOW!! This setup is amazing!

I'd do a short loop, come back and look at the newly generated AutoTune trim values, commit them to the PC-V fuel maps, and go out again. Did five rounds like this, and each time the bike felt both stronger and smoother as the AutoTune gradually massaged the PC-V's base-map into better and better shape. The on/off snatch in my throttle is almost completely gone, even though I've got the AutoTune set so it doesn't exert influence until 2% throttle opening. I guess this particular improvement - the one that was really most important to me - must be attributable to the PC-V alone, although it also doesn't appear (based on the fuel adjustment tables) to be modifying the ECU's signal until 2% throttle opening. So maybe the PC-V makes a difference in how the injectors respond to 0-2% throttle that doesn't show up in the fuel maps. (???)

Whatever the cause, I can now feather the throttle open mid-corner without having the bike suddenly lurch forward, upsetting the chassis and me, both. Now, what used to be terrifying has become exhilarating! And the bike's mid-range is definitely more stout, with loads of power on tap at any rpm. Couldn't get enough open road today to really assess WFO at the upper reaches of the tach, but I'm already feeling this equipment is well worth the price. Keep in mind that this bike already had FMF Apex cans, MH airbox, and G2 throttle with most gradual cam installed, and SAI, 2nd flies and O2 sensors all removed and turned off (along with EPC), thanks to TuneECU. I'd tried a PCIII-USB and a variety of TuneECU maps which did reasonably well; and I'm sure my remaining throttle problems were much less than stock (the bike had most of these mods already when I got it, so I can't say from direct experience). But the PC-V and AutoTune finally took care of the snatching that nothing else seemed able to fully address, along with more completely exploiting the flow characteristics of the intake and exhaust mods (almost all the trim values were much richer) - and there's possibly even more improvement to come as I give the AutoTune more time to work its magic. And that's before I start experimenting with different curves in the AutoTune's target AFR table (so far I've simply used 13.2 as the target everywhere - thanks again, ktmguy!).

So, Dynojet has built a winning combination here, but they can't write instructions worth a damn. My first outing today actually didn't go so well, as I'd followed the software's TPS calibration procedure exactly as described in the PC-V user guide and ran out with the PC-V thinking my throttle was at 100% the entire time. The instructions explicitly say to reset the TPS calibration with the engine OFF, which didn't make sense to me, but I did it like they said. When I got back after the first round and saw that the AutoTune trim values showed only for 100% throttle, I knew something was wrong and started looking on the internet for clues. I found a thread on another forum where a Dynojet tech was answering questions and this exact thing had happened to someone there. The tech told the guy he should always recalibrate the TPS with the engine RUNNING. DUH! Why not say that in the manual?! When I went back and did it that way, the TPS values in the software made sense and everything started functioning properly. This is just one of several gross errors (and lots of inadequacies) in the documentation. This equipment has been out long enough for Dynojet to fix these ridiculous mistakes that should never have been allowed out in print in the first place.

So, bottom line: this gear absolutely rocks, but the (printed) customer support absolutely sucks.

Sorry for the late reply,
Been away on a 2100km trip round the south Island
Here is a pic of my rear coil, if you want another I will remove it tomorrow for a better one

With the auto, I had one on my Hyperturd.
You had to turn it on in the pcv software and input your desired afr values.

AGRO! - no ragging from me, I just don't think the throttle cable was the issue on my particular bike. I tried all the G2 cam profiles, along with the stock throttle tube, and made adjustments to the cable slack all along the way, but none of these made the difference I was looking for. Maybe I didn't loosen the return cable enough to replicate your results, so now I'm curious. I'll try it out and see if it eliminates the last little bit of abruptness I've still got.

I suspect there may be more than one source of snatch, and that different riders may be using the same words to describe different phenomena, or different words to refer to the same thing, both of which confuse the issue further.

BTW, I balanced my TB's according to your method (wedging the throttle open very slightly instead of measuring at 0%), and got more consistent numbers that way, which suggests I achieved a more precise balance. But I can't say I was able to feel a difference in actual riding. I've also checked my TPS multiple times, and it's always within spec. However, I did notice that the voltage reading I get with the PC-V software differs somewhat from what I got with TuneECU. (The TPS calibration I referred to in my earlier post isn't really a calibration of the TPS itself, but of Dynojet's software - it has to load minimum and maximum voltage readings to know where the throttle is.)

Also, I compared the map you sent me with what is evolving with the AutoTune (by importing the final PC-V map into TuneECU and using the compare function). There's quite a bit of difference, but the AutoTune map is not nearly as pretty, with more jumbled areas of transition instead of your map's smoothly transitioning rainbow. I assume this is because the AutoTune map is still a work in progress, and it will eventually look less jumbled. I'll be glad to send it to you once it has stabilized, if you're curious.

Looking at the pcv part numbers,
18-002 will fit a 2007 -2011 SD AND also A 2007 sdr,which I have done.Same engine
18-006 says it will fit a 2009 SDR.
I would assume the 18-006 would fit a 2008 -2011 SDR, maybe someone needs to check to see the COIL plugs are the same on 2008 onwards SDR.

My 08 SDR coil plugs look way different the the one posted here.

With regard to my previous post. wherein I asked about the lack of cylinder-specific target AFR tables, etc. Here's what Dynojet tech staff had to say:

You change the target AFR table from basic to cylinder advanced from the Map Tools -> Advance/Demote Map window of the control center software.
If you see a target AFR table of all zero’s, then that is what was saved into whatever map file you currently have opened. You can find Dynojet’s recommended target AFR values, in the target AFR table of map M18-002-001.pvm.
Let me know if you have any further questions.
Regards,
Chris Kelly
Dynojet Research Inc.
2191 Mendenhall Dr. Suite 105
North Las Vegas, NV 89081
1-800-992-4993

I give them credit for relatively prompt replies to every email and phone inquiry I've made to them, but this is stuff that ought to be in the instruction manual, or at the very least posted on the website. There's just no excuse for such piss-poor documentation. Maybe they're trying to push the end-user into consultation with one of their tuning centers, but the whole idea of spending the extra money on the AutoTune is to be able to DIY. Anyway, enough of my rant. I hope this info helps the next person confused by Dynojet's lousy printed materials...

After my recent rants about Dynojet's PCV user manual's omissions and inaccuracies, I need to submit a quasi-retraction. I finally figured out that my PCV software's help menu wasn't working because of incompatibility with my Google Chrome browser. Once I reset Internet Explorer as my default browser, the PCV software's help menu worked properly, and took me to very extensive and accurate documentation available in a web-based interactive format. This resource appears to be complete and accurate, and it's also indexed and searchable. So, PCV users should go there first for information on how to use the software and the equipment. And if it doesn't seem to work at first, make sure your default browser is set to Internet Explorer - something I hope Dynojet will start warning their customers about (I alerted them to this when I figured it out).