Weird stalling issue

Stalling issues seem to be a fav on here at the mo and my SD decided it wanted in on the show

Anyway here are the symptoms. Washed the bike very quickly at a jet wash (I know ) but did keep my distance. Bike appeared fine and I rode her home. Started bike Sat morn and headed down the road. All semed well until I stopped at the lights. She stalled. Didn't want to restart except with some throttle and sounded like she was missing. Killing the ignition appeared to help her restart but into gear and revs drop and she dies. Petrol light had been on for 8 miles so headed to station. Filled up, started up and when I put her in gear the revs drop and she stalls. (side stand switch eliminator fitted 3 weeks ago because of dodgy side stand switch so not that) So I limp home by keeping revs raised.

Ring Stealer and they recommend the old disconnect battery for 20 mins and then 15 min reset. While waiting on this I disconnect all the connections around the throttle boddies and WD40 them and then use dialectic grease on them, BGC included. This appears to work and I ride off to meet buddies for a full English breakfast, yum! Jump back on bike and head off up the road, first junction and she stalls Limp on and as its out of town I give it some and she pulls great and by the time I get back to m8s she isn't stalling. However when I put her in gear the revs drop to 1k, back to neutral an they climb back to 1.4k An hour later I decide to take her on the Finchingfield run to blow out some cobwebs and perhaps get rid of any moisture that could still be around from the wash. She stalls at first junction but I press on. After 20 mins of riding she isn't stalling. However if she sits switched off for more than 10-15 mins and then I start off again the problem returns.

So plug her into TuneECU and took some screen grabs of her working.

Cold


2 bars



4 bars



Problem is I can't make the problem happen in the pits. No amount of reving, putting in gear and letting the wheel spin on paddock stand will replicate the problem I did notice the manifold pressure voltages were fluctuating a lot. Sometimes in sync but other times they could be over 1.5v apart, could this be a contributing factor? It does seem to behave in a similar way to how it does if you stall the bike when they are stone cold and restart. Doesn't like starting and runs like a dog for a few mins

Anyway I ring stealer this morn and they say pop up and they can plug her in. I get up there, explain to the 2 grease monkeys. First thing he checks fuel pump pressure and it is fine. She refuses to play up on the bench. He dons helmet heads out and she performs the stall with flying colours. He comes back confused as to why she starts but then dies when putting into gear of the way the revs drop. He fits a clutch switch bypass as my switch is fooked. No change but handy as that being fooked was a pain. Plugs her into the diagnostic tool and no errors are showing and he can't see any obvious problems. Personally I wonder if there is something wrong with the idle sensor of motor but he thinks not. He recommends cleaning the fuel pump filters which I admit have needed doing for some time, she loves a stall hard on the brakes with less than half a tank. I head home and strip down the fuel pump. Yeah the filters are a bit shitty and I clean them out with carb cleaner and a air line. Not perfect but much improved. Put her back together and head out. Stalls Although the longer it goes on the less time she appears to take to get over it. Also the revs dropping on putting into gear appears to have disappeared. Now she just stalls in the first 5-10 mins fo ride whenI pull up at lights if I let her. After that she holds enough revs to keep going although doesn't seem completely right.

Bit stumped on what to do next. Am going to take apart all connections around battery and dry and apply dialectic grease. If that doesn't work then I'm lost. Can't afford to give it to the dealer and let them spend 6 hours fault finding and charging me £350-400 for the privilege. Already cost me £45 today for an hour. Any ideas guys? I'm in need of some input.

Idle speed contoller might have some grit In the teeth.. Washed in by clean... Pull her out and give good clean and lube

Mine does exactly the same thing you describe when knocking it into gear when warm (revs drop to 1k then back into neutral and rises slowly up to 1450). This is definitely the clutch switch thing as I've pushed it in myself many times when and knocked it into gear and revs stayed the same.

#1 Check and get the clutch switch to work
#2 Check that the throttle bodies are secure and tied within the rubber intakes (i had similar problems that the idle revs were not dropping
and the cause was the throttle bodies became loose)
#3 Check TPS settings and voltage
#4 Check coolant sensor

Ok I took MrZ32 advice and removed the idle speed controller. I had a look in the workshop manual and this appears to be it



Gave it a good clean and a spray of WD40. What I didn't do however was check the exact alignment and so now I either have the engine ticking over too quickly when coming off the throttle (2-3k, then returning to 1.4k after being stationary for a few seconds) or it's too slow and she stalls. It's going to take a very fine adjustment to get this in the perfect spot.

Have to ask is there more than one system that controls idle? The reason I ask is that it feels like something is controling things as you shut the throttle when riding and then a couple of seconds later something else takes over and reduces the rpm to 1.4k and keeps it there. I must admit I'm slightly confused as I am stuggling to find enough info on these systems. The Workshop Manual just says that no adjustment of throttle bodies will ever be required and that's it Fat lot of use that is.
Also MrZ32 how do you alter voltages of such things like idle in TuneECU? I have read the PDF and can't see any advice on such things. Where do you enter voltages or is it something you adjust on the the throttle bodies?

As already suggested, check the clutch switch at the lever as it does input into engine/idle speed irrespective of whether the side stand switch is bypassed or not.

The photo you have put up you have the arrow pointing to the front TPS (throttle posistion sensor). This will effect idle if not set right.

Nowe have a look at the Tune Ecu screen shots youve thrown up, see under the heading THROTTLE where the reading is 0.66v when the enging is warm, well this is the reading you need, (the exact reading should be 0.6v, see page 7-41 in the manuel) undo the screw and turn the TPS until you have this reading again (this is a very fine adjustment)

Going back to the stalling, this is what mines was doing early last year, after going through everything and also paying a stealer £200 to do F-all i finally did the big grey connector, my reasoning being i had cleaned the bike in february on a cold day then let the bike idle, the amount of steam/condensation that comes off the radiator in those low temps is crazy so i figured the BGC had gotten full of moisture. I removed the BGC and pulled apart and positioned them upright then absoulutly saturated both in WD40 and left overnight. The next day I turned them upside down and let all the WD40 run back out and again left overnight. The following day i got some gentle heat into the connectors (Hairdrier - Klinck you must own 1 of them surely? ) then packed the fookers with the special grease before connecting the 2 sides back up - problem solved

I cant remember who it was but 1 of the members here advised me that the rear parts of the connector that you cant see can hold moisture that cant escape.

My betting is that as it gets warmer your bike will suddenly correct its stalling problem due to the moisture drying out. I no youve already done the BGC but you have to really REALLY saturate the bugger with WD and let it completly dry before the grease

klink... that is the TPS . So now you know how to remove it, you should know how to adjust it.

you loosen the screw off then you can rotate it on its axis... this is how you change your tps voltage... so when cold, set it to 3.8V at full throttle (obviously then tighten the screw again... as this is essentially just a variable resistor working off the movement of the throttle body). That will give you a good ball park figure. Take it for a ride then check your voltage again (while still warm). Dont worry that when you start it that the revs rise a fair bit at first, it will die down within 5 sec or so)

If it has been trying to hold its revs too much then you can increase the voltage (cant remember which way to rotate it levt or right) but dont increase by too much as every time you chop the throttle the bike will stall. If this happens, take the voltage back a bit.

Repeat these steps until you are happy with the smoothness and performance. (remember the higher the voltage, the closer you can get the bike to 100% tps). You will know if you got it wrong (when cold) when your tps reads much more than 1-3% at 0 throttle... as it will stall when you come up to the lights.

The key is finding a balance that you are happy with. Remember as electrical items heat up, they lose their efficiency (hence produce a smaller output voltage)... so all adjustments need to be done at either at temp or cold. In fact the colder it is in the mornings, the more likely that it will stall for no reason when cold... hence why ktm adjusts it to somewhere in the middle (so it wont stall at 0 degC but if it never gets that cold where you live you can set it higher (slightly))... with all these brackets in brackets you can tell i do too many maths calcs.

Klink what is your skype... might be able to talk you through it

klink, that pdf that i sent you, could you please host it on here... as i just realised that there is a diagnostics section on the the roll sensor as well... i know a few guys were having problems with these... it tells you the correct voltages that you should be able to look at with tune ecu

Yeah no worries I'll upload it and put a link on here and page 1 or TuneECU thread. Also in the manuals section.

No47 my stealer fitted the clutch switch bypass when I was there the other day. I think this was also playing up.

Cheers for the input guys. I realised my error when James sent me the pdf. I will put the tps back to the voltage it should be. This thread has answered a

lot of questions for me, like how you change the voltages. Thanks for again for the fab advice.

Oh and Ash I don't own a hairdryer but my flat m8s do. i'll give the BCG a good soaking in WD and check the Idle Speed Motor while I'm at it.

James's PDF

SD_Throttle_Bodies_Diagram&systems

https://files.me.com/craig.wiltshire/zaysj4

Seems the cutoff is at random, don't know if your SD still got air sensors, prob. not?
But that could be one of the reasons in random stalls if one of those is faulty.

Good thread,
The Moderators encounter the problems before you get a chance to.
Thanxs Klinck- I had no idea on the TPS adjustment either....can't wait to try a TB sinc using tune's software.
Thanks to BigAsh too for explaining it, tho' it would be a lot easier to follow your posts if my attention didn't keep straying back to the avatar .
Jeff

Ok I went after her again this evening. First things first I took apart all the connectors including the BGC and soaked them in WD40. That done I left the bike for an hour to let it soak properly in. Came back and dried them all out, greased them up and reconnected.

Next fired up TuneECU and went about setting the TPS. Before I had any of these problems I know my % was at 96 when at full throttle. Tried to get 3.8v and .6v but that was giving 100% I tried starting the bike and she was ticking over too high so I went back to 96% which was 3.63v and 058v. Running nicely on the paddock stand . So head out for a blast round the block. Still ticking over at 2k and then returning to 1.4 after a few seconds. Head back and plug her in again. This time I run it though some tests just to make sure all is working properly. Did Fuel Pump, Idle Stepper (heard it go through full range of motion. First time I think I'd ever heard that.) and 2nd Throttle. Started bike again and she sounds perfect. Revs perfectly and returns to 1400rpm. Things are looking good. Head out and she is riding like before I had all this hassle. Revs perfectly and off the throttle she is perfect and when I pull in the clutch she sits at 1400 The acid test will of course be in the morning when she is starting from cold but I am feeling hopeful. Fingers crossed guys!

James and Stew thanks soooo much for the help guys. Really has been a life and wallet saver and if I was of a homosexual persuasion you would both be up for a nosh fortunately for both you and myself I'm not. Tom and Alain you have one in the bank if you ever wanna cash in PM me Am so grateful for this amazing piece of software and fantastic advice on here. I could so see this going down the BigAsh route of a stupid bill at Stealers for fook all.
A Paypal donation is on it's way. Thanks again.

Not running full throttle



Not running 0% throttle



Running 0% thrttle

Seriously, try setting it to 3.8v the bike will idle a little high for a short time BUT it will die down.. The ecu will learn. If then stalls when you chop the throttle, you know it is too high and adjust accordingly... But 3.6v is too low for a cold 100% throttle reading

Ok I will look at this James. Cheers again for the help dude. Beers on me if you make it this side of the planet

Ok just took her out to look at a job and she behaved perfectly I am totally in love yet again. it's like we had a massive row then wild, fooked up make up sex (best kind ) Very happy Klinky

Didn't look at setting her up at 3.8 as I didn't have the time. Will look at it tomorrow morning though.

Excellent new Klink, i just wish TuneECU had been around last year when i had my problems!!!!

Who needs KTM dealers anymore

Somebody serioiusly needs to do a How-to on tuning the TPS using the software with nice screen shots etc and make it a sticky in the correct section

I'm having some further issues with mine now. When I chop the throttle instead of stalling the revs rise to about 2000 for 2 seconds then return to idle. In gear and on the move it was basically riding itself at over 4000rpm and wouldn't idle properly until returned to neutral and left for 10 secs plus.

I'm getting the same symptoms with TPS set at 3.81 and 3.71.

BGC!!!!!!!!!!!

I know, I've seen your many posts about the BGC. I left it soaking last night for a bit and now its drying out.

Battery is fairly new and connections are fine. Also new regulator. I haven't washed it in a while but I'm starting to doubt the grease I've used for the connections as it was fine before I fit the motobox. It doesn't say dielectric but does have non conductive, excellent salt water resistance, high temp suitable etc...

I checked yesterday as I wondered about the gap left from the rubber seals at the bottom of the standard box but looking at other pictures everybody else has the gap. Got the day off tomorrow luckily so hopefully can get to the bottom of it.

By the way, I have posted regarding this issue several times. Just trying to help prevent others from wasting time when they could be out riding and enjoying these bikes in lieu of working on them in vain.

I chased my ass for six months trying to sort out the running issues I was having (came real close to selling the bike because it was pissing me off). All of the dealers and "factory trained" mechanics were cluless so I decided to tear the bike down to the frame if necessary to sort this issue once and for all. FIrst order of buisness was to disconnect the PCIII...fortunately I discovered the water in the connector before I had parts strewn all over the garage.

Dried and lubed the connector as I've described in previous posts and all running issues were resolved. Posted up results. Fixed a few friends SDs with the same or similar issues....all have been running fine for over a year and a half now since fixed.

For some reason I've had a hard time convincing some of the others on this board but I've not given up. We will have all of these SDs running properly even if my fingers fall off from all of the typing

Agaikn, good luck.

John

Thanks John, I've taken this on board.

I spent the morning (would you believe it) looking for some different grease and no places on the bloody island seem to have any. My brother may be able to get something from work though.

I tried drying the connection out as best I could with what's available at home, set TPS and fired her up again. At first she was slightly misbehaving again as if the BGC was half dry but I decided to go for a quick spin and it actually got better. Can't believe how smooth it is on/off the throttle now! Turned it off for 10 mins before riding back and it was doing its own thing again. Revs rising over 3k in gear and wouldn't settle down until back into neutral.

Things are looking up though!

Doesn't Vaseline have the same qualities as dialectic grease?

Possibly, although it melts at low heats as far as I know...

Guys,

Just tried TuneECU yesterday on my RC8 and I saw that my TPS goes up to 93%.
Does anybody know if the TPS voltage values are the same as with the superduke?

Or it doesn't matter? Adjust until TuneECU says 100%?

Does the engine have to be in operational temperature or not?

Cheers