What went wrong? SDR on fire...

Dear All,
Today I have finally went down to my garage to finish the MH mod with installing O2 eliminators and SAS removal - plates + resistor. O2 eliminators from PCIII set , SAS removal resistor - as required - 1kOhm 1/4 W. After couple of hours finally put all together, ignition ON, engine running - NO Fi blinking. I thought all's fine and running. Good so far. Stopped the engine and went home to change for rinding. Had to check how it is running now.
And so, I took it for a short ride. All was ok, but I felt it running differently, no backfires, as with the SAS, a bit different exhaust sound (I think, as I only made like a kilometer). And instantly Fi came on, bike stalled, engine went off, dash went off. I stopped and that was the end. As I thought. Then I tried to turn it on , but nothing, when switching the ignition button dash stayed off, only some strange sound somewhere inside (computer area)... Checked fuses - one of the 10A burnt. Fuse changed. Ignition ON. Dash lights up and just few seconds after when wanted to start the engine the wiring in front of the bike started to burn. Managed to switch off the IGN before it started to burn with fire. No new burt fuses...
When I came back home I have dismounted the O2 plugs and the resistor, tried to turn it on then, but it continiued to burn the wires. Now I'm scared it is something really big. But what went wrong? Where to look? Question if the ECU survived. All these questions, not even a suspicion... If you guys had some ideas I will be really thankful...As I am now so depressed. Don't know what to do.

Which part of the front wiring loom is burning?

I'm not sure, can't see nothing. Just taken off the panels and tank, but nothing. I'll try to take out the ECU tomorrow and some front wiring. Maybe then. All I know something is down, cause continues to burn even all the additives are taken off (resistor and O2 eliminators)...

Sorry to hear of your issues...I think we're gonna need some pics to try and help you determine what's going on here.

From your post, the installation steps you've taken should have had no affect on the wiring harness whatsoever unless you've possibly pinched a 12V wire some where which is causing a short. Even if this were the case, the fuses should blow long before wires receive enough current to start smoking.

Did you replace the burnt out fuse with one of the same rating ?

Check that main cable going from battery to ignition key thingy. Mine was rubbing against front cylinder head, caused a short circuit and lots of smoke.

Hope you get it sorted. As others have said there is nothing that you mention that should cause that problem unless you've pinched a wire somewhere or it's pure coincidence that it happened now.

Today I tried to find a place or a cable that may be pinched and making a short circuit and have found none. All I have found out is that I have caused the whole disaster probably. There was a short circuit on the resistor I have made (stiupid me) and I think it acted like a simple cable connecting both outputs of the SAS connector. Never the less it caused destruction in the system. The bike doesn't burn fuses any more, something still makes a noise like it was burning after IGN ON(slightly sizzles, however to call it), but don't know where, as I don't want to keep it any longer to make it smoke or burn. Also when I try to start the engine it doesn't. I am afraid of the worst scenario - the ECU. But if any of you had the knowledge of the electrical system on SDukeds and had some ideas where to look, what to check I would be greatful. I think I have killed the beast...

The noise you hear when turning the ignition on is the secondary flies checking themselves, its like a 2 second buzzing noise.

If the bike is under warrenty then put it all back to standard and get it to a dealer, if not then -

remove the SAS resistor all together and leave the plug empty, this will give the FI light but wont stop the bike starting. You can even plug the original SAS valve back in if you want (just for now).

Is the bike turning over?

Have you checked the battery for voltage?

Which fuse was the bike actually blowing? (which circuit?)

Give us abit more information and we may be able to help

I doubt very much you have bricked the ECU!!!!

Please let us no exactly which fuse circuit was blowing!

Also have you read the wiring diagram in the repair manuel (you can download it in the How-to section)

Also check your relays work and are putting out power!

For 90% it was No8 (ACC2) fuse. But not blowing any more.

Now I can see the battery is benieth 12V much - like 11,2V, so maybe that is why it won't start... All the relays clicking when trying to start the motor.

Maybe I will leve it for a longer time IGN ON to see if it burns the cables...

I have also checked the wiring diagram for the SAS reinforcement - what warries me is the positive comes straight from the ECU, so if I had a short there it could make bad to it...

Unless you want to miss this whole riding season I suggest you bite the bullet and buy a new ECU (if that is in fact the problem).

Not sure how you could have messed up the SAS resistor mod. There are two wires and you solder a 1K ohm 1/4 watt resistor across them. Even if you soldered the two wires directly together, I wouldn't think that'd be enough juice to fry anything....we're talking less than 1/4 watt here. Worst case should be an error code for SAS.

I think something else is amiss.

How about this one? Looks SDR Part No...

Additional Q: where is the mileage being stored? ECU or Dash?

I don't believe for a second you fried you ECU by joining together the SAS wires. Has to be something else and personally i'd be all over KTM to explain just how they think that fired the ECU.

Oh and millage is stored in dash

Hi Guys,
So, the case remains unsolved, the dealer still doesn't know what cases problems with the ECU, only that it gets fried.
The dumbest thing I heard today is that they even cannot get an ECU from KTM since they don't have one on stock. They don't keep stocks they say !!! Is it funny or I'm stupid?
They also try to talk to the KTM, but no replies yet.
So, I thought I must make a try and talk to KTM Austria (or someone who is empowered to make decisions) by myself.
Do you have any contacts to somebody over there, an e-mail address would be the best, or are these a hidden secret for the non-KTM ?
Getting tired with all this.

ktmversand.de - make account and order. This ecu is available there. Until there is no new ecu why dont you take the old to electronics repair guy? May be it is a 5 minute job to replace transistor which causes short circuit.

i'm with Klinck here... no way SAS short should damage ECU. it should spit out an FI error, that's all. it's just a sensor, crossed wires mean zero resistance, so ECU thinks mix is very lean (or rich, whichever way the sensor works). since resistance value is 'out of range', you should get an FI error. no fooking way it toasted ECU, i shorted both kickstand sensor and lambda sensor wires without causing any problems (other then FI error code)

OK, i know you might not want to hear this, but....

last thing you want to do now is hook up another ECU to it, and find out it got fried too. maybe your ECU was faulty, and all you need is a new one, but there is also a chance you have a problem somewhere else, and new one will suffer the same faith.

i think that if a fuse kept blowing there is a problem. and it's on the circuit protected by that fuse (now the fuse is not blowing, because ECU is burnt, so no power to the faulty circuit)
check everything on the fuse that blew... it blew for a reason. if you have a dealer look at it, make sure they know which fuse kept blowing.

this might be a stupid question, but are you sure you put the resistor on the SAS plug?

your going to have to strip back the whole wiring loom and check for any melted outer wires that may be causing the short before even thinking about buying and plugging in a new ECU!

jaanusj, i gotta disagree with you... besides the fact that i rode with shorted o2 sensor for weeks and all i got was '18' FI error, the manual states that SAS failure does not affect the engine beyond lack of lambda fuel correction (section 7-26 - Safety against failure & emergency operation)... ALSO, check out error code chart in the manual...

error code 54 (P0413 & P0414) - SAS short to positive and SAS short to ground - engine continues to run

I'll say it again......1/4 watt is not going to fry a fooking thing!

Some calculations: if you use 1Kohm resistor the power consumption through ecu will be 0,169 W
If you create short circuit the power consumption through ecu will be(depending on the resistance of wires): ca 500w

Of course the ecu has built in protection circuit but the ecu is not designed to drive such loads...

how did you come up with 500W??
P(W) = v(V) * I(A), so assuming 12V, to get 500W you'd have to run ~40A through it... the fuse to ECU will only allow it to take 10A.

with 1000ohm resistor, and assuming the circuit runs on 12V, I(A) = v(V) / R (ohm), so I=0.012A, and P = 0.144 W


either way, the manual states -

SAS short to positive - engine continues to run, FI error 54 (DTC P0413)
SAS short to ground or intruption - engine continues to run, FI error 54 (DTC P0414)

and

defective component: Secondary Air Valve; Effect: no lambda correction; spare sensor: No; possible to start engine: Yes

you can't tell me that KTM did not think about it, and engine will continue to run even as ECU is melting...

theoreticaly - yes, but ECU runs on 10A fuse... if it gets total of 10A, for everything, that's total of 120-130W... it cannot produce 500W. the moment it starts running total draw >130W the fuse *should* blow...

i'm simply concerned that if SAS short did not do it (and i really do not think it should have), something else did... and if so, new/repaired ECU will be toasted too. that would really suck. Shame it's just out of warranty...

if my reading of the wiring diagram is correct, ECU gets power from fuse #1... that's the 1st 10A, right beside the 15A. Moto-X, is that the fuse that blew? or is it #8?

Can only be two things dude. Wrong resistor or plugged- connected bad.
A multi meter is your friend.
Try first to get rid of the fault in tuneecu as it could be in memory, you might have turned the key while it was disconnected.
If it doesn't come back that's what it is, if it comes back check connections and resistor with a multi meter.

seeing as you're using TE, just turn the bugger off, clear the fault, problem solved!

thanks ktmguy.

have a 1/4 watt 1k resistor, have spare resistors and if I set the multimeter to Ohms 2K and test one of the spares i get 0.996 . if i test the plug i get 0.996. confused ?????

jamster, can you ellaborate where to turn off in tune ECU. for SAS removal i was under the impression you need the resistor override??

The SAS system in TE is SAI. By turning it off it works the same way as the O2's that you've turned off.

oh right!!

thats awesome, sorted i guess, quick check box and done.

leave SAS valve plug empty and tape up?

cheers

Don't forget to save map and send back to bike though.

brilliant, thanks folks.

2nd flies and shatfts now out.

will post on the ECU official topic thread regarding a base map.

thanks again.